Countering destro raze

[Dabbart]

Best way we found last night, defend at the top of a ramp. The morale bomb can’t hit everyone, so you can hold quite a bit easier....

[Collateral]

why not make sword master and iron breaker also morale pumpers. byt with parry not block
+200 morale each time u parry every 3 sec. '-). or make sw and engi morale leechers( because anyway order is ranged biased) problem solved and i still waiting pet for shadow warrior. i hope christmass its will be

Destro morale pump is every 6 seconds

Order has many other tolls at their disposal in warbands. Giving the same morale pump to order tanks would be broken as hell. But certain classes could definitely use some love when it comes to warbands.

Also ranged morale drain seems like a really bad idea to me.

[Scrilian]

What a hilarious thread all around

Giving the same morale pump to order tanks would be broken as hell

Yea, only one side having it is considered balanced and both sides is immediately broken, gotcha

[Haojin]

Scrilian, aren't you a pugger after all ?
Why you bother ? We discussing some technical stuff here, please go away mate.

[Collateral]

Oh it's this guy again...

[wargrimnir]

Scrilian, aren't you a pugger after all ?
Why you bother ? We discussing some technical stuff here, please go away mate.

Could we avoid the pissing match? Thanks.

[dansari]

I would love to give SM a morale drain because I think it would make them warband viable, but that's just my opinion and when I made that suggestion Penril laid the hammer on it haha. No way in hell do SWs or engies need a ranged morale leecher.

Edit: I also think the "use AM morale pump" argument is way overhyped. The only place you can really use it is when you're stationary, during a keep siege. Sure, you can maybe take two AMs and slot them in ranged groups, but they're paper and immobile. Whereas RP and WP are tougher and have more mobility, in a mobility meta.

[Scrilian]

Spoiler:

Scrilian, aren't you a pugger after all ?
Why you bother ? We discussing some technical stuff here, please go away mate.

Some may call it technical, I find it hilarious

Oh it's this guy again...

Glad to see that you are still out of words, my friend

Hey mate. Pissing match goes both ways. Don't.

[footpatrol2]

That outrider patrol Bomb I listed earlier is basically immune to mara AE morale drain. Order has the fastest morale bomb in the game. Not the largest but the fastest. Which has a lot of value.

You have to learn how to kite as a large group. This can be done but there is a learning curve and it is semi hard to conduct. It should be hard because it is super powerful. Sometimes rocks's kite game is strong, sometimes we suck at it. That's a team issue. The more AM's you take the more you increase your kite game.

HTL is a hard counter to Rdps classes. A well organized HTL group can cut off 50%+ plus the damage output of rdps. But what do you have to do to conduct a well organized HTL group? You have to organize the tanks to stand next to each other USE HTL and the dps/healer's or whatever you want to protect has to rest under that blanket of protection. What is that doing? Your bunching up your player's.

What does Outrider patrol do? Destroy player's that are bunched up. Destro straight up doesn't have outrider patrol. BW m2 bomb has issue's due to Mara drain.

If we had the correct morale gain rates you wouldn't have to use AM's to pump up and you could just naturally get to your m2. Incorrect morale gain rates cuts off a leg on the table. So now your only standing on three legs as opposed to 4. Morale's and how they interact/how to counter especially in t4 is THEE endgame content. Instead of just saying morale bombs are bad, step up to the challenge.

You have classes with great morale bomb recovery built into them. Insta rez. EXTREMELY underrated by the community. If order starts Morale bombing rocks I could just tell all my shaman's which I have 8 or 10 to slot insta rez at a moment's notice. Btw, Look at how fast I can react/adapt. We wipe once, I know what your doing, tactic slot switch bam. I can more easily mitigate morale bombs. Will I wipe still? 100% Can I mitigate a morale bomb more easily? yes. The faster I get my player's back up, the faster they are gaining morale, the faster they can get to a morale bomb condition and turn the fight. Order can do roughly exactly the same thing.

[dansari]

That doesn't address the immobility of AM at all. Your band can kite extremely effectively because all of your healers have access to sticky feetz and hyper speed (don't know if they all slot it or not, but that and auto detaunt are two of the strongest tactics in game for a healer). AM doesn't have that luxury, and are incredibly poor at healing on the move compared to RP/WP.

Yes, we know about insta rez and take advantage of it.

And I'm not saying morale bombs are bad (although they are a bit cheesy, they are effective at deciding keep sieges). I'm saying the morale bombs you're proposing aren't super viable outside of niche scenarios. Saying "just get your AMs to pump up to a speccable SW m4 and have 6 of them bomb" doesn't take into account: the poor morale pumps order has vs what destro has (single target 2s heal vs group morale gains through 'Ere We Go + BO passive morale gain off block + SH Strength in Numbas), the consistent damage you lose from those SWs to get that m4, and in the time it takes to get to that m4, the fight is normally already decided.