So.. time to fix the WL?

[SilverWF]

According to the logic used in this thread, the marauders healdebuff should be erased because there are squigherders.

1. Marauder didn't have outgoing healing debuff
2. To make incoming heal debuff for 50% Mara need to go pretty high in the 1st tree and waste 1 tactic slot for it
3. Mara do not have Pounce
4. WL do not forced to fight with WL, SW, BW and AM in the lakes

[talissera]

oh got it....so just make playing dok mandatory and **** every other heal class got ya

AHAAHAHAHAHA!!! Atm one DoK in premade party is mandatory, another one can be sham or Zealot. But not the 1st.

[talissera]

According to the logic used in this thread, the marauders healdebuff should be erased because there are squigherders.

Imo a melee DD without an incoming healdebuff is the same as a tank without guard. One is the most important debuff (against competitive "no-pug-enemies"), the other one is the most important buff.
With an incoming healdebuff on the WL, you are free to compose any group setup you want.

Don't forget about HD on KoBSes (= You always have HD.

[Luth]

According to the logic used in this thread, the marauders healdebuff should be erased because there are squigherders.

1. Marauder didn't have outgoing healing debuff

And? He has the incoming one, which is way more viable when trying to kill something. I can't see any argument here (not that i'm surprised...)

2. To make incoming heal debuff for 50% Mara need to go pretty high in the 1st tree and waste 1 tactic slot for it

You mean higher than this? In case you didn't notice: the tactic has a very nice side effect and i think every WL would exchange his mastery 50% outgoing HD for a core 25% incoming HD + option for that tactic anytime. Again, no argument/point/whatever...

3. Mara do not have Pounce

And what has pounce to do with an incoming healdebuff (that was a major point of my post btw...). If pounce is too strong, it should get a cooldown or whatever. Reading comprehension etc...

4. WL do not forced to fight with WL, SW and Am in the lakes

Aaaah, the mighty high elf classes; in T4 every group should have at least two of them to be competitive.

Also a warning: if you write 3 x "1vs1" in a row, the 'rael appears out of nowhere right behind you and hits you with the banhammer.

Another note: The marauder was only mentioned, to show the illogicality/inconsistency of some arguments here. This was obviously not clear to everyone (still not surprised...)

[Luth]

According to the logic used in this thread, the marauders healdebuff should be erased because there are squigherders.

Imo a melee DD without an incoming healdebuff is the same as a tank without guard. One is the most important debuff (against competitive "no-pug-enemies"), the other one is the most important buff.
With an incoming healdebuff on the WL, you are free to compose any group setup you want.

Don't forget about HD on KoBSes (= You always have HD.

The Kotbs aura is a 25% outgoing healdebuff for every healer in 30 feet range around the knight. It is a nice tool for a tank, like the IB outgoing healdebuff. I don't know what's the argument here regarding WLs.

[Joshwa70]

right now, wl has 0 cc, they would have to spec out of armor debuff to get knockdown, silence doesn't come till later, and loner isnt an option till later. They do absolutely nothing but hit you. Want to get rid of pouncing lions? give them a inc hdebuff. People would spec it. Also, having all cc on the lion makes them even more craptastic. FIx the WL

[SilverWF]

"And? He has the incoming one, which is way more viable when trying to kill something. I can't see any argument here (not that i'm surprised...)"
I can't say it's more viable. I can say it's equal. Sure you will disagree with me and your Order friends will only support you. Not surprised also.

"You mean higher than this? In case you didn't notice: the tactic has a very nice side effect and i think every WL would exchange his mastery 50% outgoing HD for a core 25% incoming HD + option for that tactic anytime. Again, no argument/point/whatever..."
Not higher, but still high for Marauder, who MUST spec points in 2nd tree to have +50% crits value, while some "poor" class has it as CORE tactic.
Also, there is only 3 slots for tactic now, and marauders, usually, do not have a place for that heal debuff tactic (especially, after it was nerfed)

"And what has pounce to do with an incoming healdebuff (that was a major point of my post btw...). If pounce is too strong, it should get a cooldown or whatever. Reading comprehension etc..."
I suggested it long ago, but you and your Order friends was strongly disagree with me. Why you agreed now?
Also: "The Pounce was only mentioned, to show the illogicality/inconsistency of some arguments here"

"Aaaah, the mighty high elf classes; in T4 every group should have at least two of them to be competitive. "
I will remeber about that classes until they are existing in the current state without same destro mirrors.
If it's not "1vs1", so why only Destro roamers/loners must be punished by facing that classes? Let Order roamers will be punished too. Isn't it fair?

You are trying to use WL not as he was mentioned.
His role is strong healers pressure. WL is not a Slayer, do not even try to use WL like Slayer.
Wl has really strong base damage of abilities. Mara can't even be compared with WL here ><

[Penril]

"And? He has the incoming one, which is way more viable when trying to kill something. I can't see any argument here (not that i'm surprised...)"
I can't say it's more viable. I can say it's equal. Sure you will disagree with me and your Order friends will only support you. Not surprised also.

I play mostly destro and i completely disagree with you.

Inc heal debuff >>>>>>>>>>> Outgoing heal debuff. Please don't tell me you need an explanation.

[SilverWF]

Inc heal debuff >>>>>>>>>>> Outgoing heal debuff. Please don't tell me you need an explanation.

Please don't tell me, that you didn't read last words from that post.

[Penril]

I read all your posts. You said that inc HD = Out HD. I pointed out you were wrong. Apparently you need an explanation, but i dont have the energy/time to explain something so obvious.

It seems to me that you think a WL's role is to Pounce from healer to healer using a 10 sec CD cleansable heal debuff (which has a positional requirement). That's as absurd as saying a Magus role is CC.

The only problem i see with WL's is Pounce letting them ignore pretty much everything on terrain (fences on Highpass Cemetery for example).