DPS DOK NERF

[madrocks]

You dare to ban my forum account? And delete my post?

[Acidic]

Give devs credit they try things, we will see effect. Discus the effects once they are clear.
They have shown ability to listen to constructive well explained reasoning, even listen to certain classes crying.
Like what they do or not give them credit for listening and having a longer and balanced perspective

[wargrimnir]

You dare to ban my forum account? And delete my post?

Dare?

[Arbich]

Hiding ability changes in hotfixes under spoiler tags isn't exactly the image of transparency, is it?

Also randomly doing it hours after a real patch during reboot to fix forts :*)

This was actually going to go in next week. If we pushed the DB without the code, it would have been not working at all, and Natherul needed to push some unrelated DB fixes.

We're evaluating to see if this is enough to resolve the balance issues with DoKs in 6v6, and if it's not, we'll make further adjustments.

So far, I think it is. Maybe a bit too harsh, we'll re-evaluate.

Balance is off, cause you countered the weakness of mdok (lack of mobility/ease of cc) with implementation of mobility/cc buffs to ALL other mdps destro have (squig punce, WE stealth/sprint, git to da choppa and mara pull). On top of this the rework of DoK/WP (which is mostly bad, cause you dumbed down salv WP play, not so much dark rites DoK. But in general was unneeded) also somewhat buffed their mobility (for what reason DoK and WP have exactly the same snare break/ignore, while only DoK have snare prayer....).
AoE heal debuffs was main reason taking DoK and their unique special ability. Instead of focussing on general balance and why something is OP in the broader picture, you take the easy option to "balance" things.

Edit: The upcoming rampage nerf (guessing) also comes, cause the invader set is just bad (read OP) designed for slayer

[zumos2]

Hiding ability changes in hotfixes under spoiler tags isn't exactly the image of transparency, is it?

Also randomly doing it hours after a real patch during reboot to fix forts :*)

This was actually going to go in next week. If we pushed the DB without the code, it would have been not working at all, and Natherul needed to push some unrelated DB fixes.

We're evaluating to see if this is enough to resolve the balance issues with DoKs in 6v6, and if it's not, we'll make further adjustments.

So far, I think it is. Maybe a bit too harsh, we'll re-evaluate.

I sincerily hope you are not balancing based on solo ranked 6v6 ... A good order group has all the tools to make the AoE healdebuff rather irrelevant with RP Blessing of Grungni and the 15% extra healing from kotbs. Imo its an unwarrented nerf aimed just at solo ranked. Meanwhile it large scale, roaming and premade 6v6 specs are nerfed for no apparent reason.

[Misaji]

Balancing both for SCs and RvR is a slippery slope.

[Keula]

Maaan. I finally tried 3 matches of dps dok in solo ranked and really liked the aoe pressure seeing enemy tanks at low hp with a melee squiq.
Also what exactly is a direct damage ability? The nerf is obviously about fell sacrifice(rip that ability as the only point was to spread curse of khaine and give the enemy wp something to cleanse), but are lacerate/sanquinary dots, khaines imbuement, devour essence and even essence lash considered direct damage??

[wargrimnir]

Also randomly doing it hours after a real patch during reboot to fix forts :*)

This was actually going to go in next week. If we pushed the DB without the code, it would have been not working at all, and Natherul needed to push some unrelated DB fixes.

We're evaluating to see if this is enough to resolve the balance issues with DoKs in 6v6, and if it's not, we'll make further adjustments.

So far, I think it is. Maybe a bit too harsh, we'll re-evaluate.

I sincerily hope you are not balancing based on solo ranked 6v6 ... A good order group has all the tools to make the AoE healdebuff rather irrelevant with RP Blessing of Grungni and the 15% extra healing from kotbs. Imo its an unwarrented nerf aimed just at solo ranked. Meanwhile it large scale, roaming and premade 6v6 specs are nerfed for no apparent reason.

Balance questions are raised in all sorts of formats. 6v6 is not some holy ground to be left untouched. Once might consider the 1v1 formats that WL is strong in to be a point of balance as well, which we've addressed as well. General rules to how we engage in balance have exceptions, and some abilities, or classes, or specs can be exception in specific engagements. How much credence we give to any balance consideration is typically brought into a debate. Either it's appropriate, or not. In the latter, we usually come up with several options to adjust and ideally start with the least amount of shift needed to make the intended change.

This tactic is a 100% chance to apply a 9s 50% healdebuff on-crit. If that's not a pretty amazing tactic on it's own, I'm not sure what is. The intention was to scale back its ability to proc on AOE due in part to the lifting of the AOE cap to 24 targets, combined with the 50' frontal cone from Essence Lash and the potential 150' range on a 30' AOE with Devour Essence. Crits from either of those proccing a 9s 50% healdebuff potentially hitting an entire warband worth of players is incredibly powerful and deserved to be scaled back.

[Deadkiller]

tbh since which patch is dps dok meta in wb play? in would say it was never...

pls stop crying and let devs do their job what they do in freetime... (testing things is as comon sense in this stage)

i guess people forget its still an alpha and free to play, they ned feedback and no cry post

[wachlarz]

This was actually going to go in next week. If we pushed the DB without the code, it would have been not working at all, and Natherul needed to push some unrelated DB fixes.

We're evaluating to see if this is enough to resolve the balance issues with DoKs in 6v6, and if it's not, we'll make further adjustments.

So far, I think it is. Maybe a bit too harsh, we'll re-evaluate.

I sincerily hope you are not balancing based on solo ranked 6v6 ... A good order group has all the tools to make the AoE healdebuff rather irrelevant with RP Blessing of Grungni and the 15% extra healing from kotbs. Imo its an unwarrented nerf aimed just at solo ranked. Meanwhile it large scale, roaming and premade 6v6 specs are nerfed for no apparent reason.

Balance questions are raised in all sorts of formats. 6v6 is not some holy ground to be left untouched. Once might consider the 1v1 formats that WL is strong in to be a point of balance as well, which we've addressed as well. General rules to how we engage in balance have exceptions, and some abilities, or classes, or specs can be exception in specific engagements. How much credence we give to any balance consideration is typically brought into a debate. Either it's appropriate, or not. In the latter, we usually come up with several options to adjust and ideally start with the least amount of shift needed to make the intended change.

This tactic is a 100% chance to apply a 9s 50% healdebuff on-crit. If that's not a pretty amazing tactic on it's own, I'm not sure what is. The intention was to scale back its ability to proc on AOE due in part to the lifting of the AOE cap to 24 targets, combined with the 50' frontal cone from Essence Lash and the potential 150' range on a 30' AOE with Devour Essence. Crits from either of those proccing a 9s 50% healdebuff potentially hitting an entire warband worth of players is incredibly powerful and deserved to be scaled back.

Its not 100%, only on crit bit dif or tooltip is wrong