Warhammer Online: 1.4.9 Patch Notes on PTS

[Tesq]

I wrote KOBS/Chosen will be alpha tanks even after a 1.4.9 patch more or less simply because of twisting auras, KBs, KDs and no annoying mechanic.

I said nothing about their relative strength. If you ask me I'd say KOBS are the better of the two but that is another topic.

ye but this statement is still not correctly , bo and BG are alredy more close to chosen and they always found a x1 in a group premade, chosen can be a good guard and party buffer but when it cames to assist melee bo and bg shine better, usualy it was better play with 1 chosen and 1 other tank than 2 chosen at least in last month of game.
Order situation is totaly different, kobs are alpha tank, never nerfed, both can single assist and buff party, they always run in 2x in every order party

better destru party would be the follow

Chosen (stick it to a sorc so it can be 100% time stay hold the line , or move away for KB or stag, charge moral 4, spam challenge)
Bo/BG (100% time on assist their melee also use challenge)
choppa (guarded by bo/bg)
sorc (guarded by chosen)
Dok (spam aoe heal,cleanse)
Zeal (better than a 2nd dok, heal the same but increase other dok heal of 20%, aoe heal + fill the heal issue not covered by dok thx to istant heal spam)

There is not such alpha classes in destru, the only entry left are shammy, squig, magus, we.
But considering having at least 1-2 shammy in a wb for pot and at least 1 magus for aoe pull, the only 2 remain outside are squig and we.
I left out mare becouse it work only thx to a bug tactic....
Destru side is far more balance than order side which main party would be

kobs
kobs
slayer/bw
slayer/bw
wp
wp

If there was more chosen than bo/bg was due to their number, is true both BG/BO have some issues but they're not so bad as SM/ IB.
Then BO/bg can cleanse slayer rampage and all wb should thank you for that

oh about precedent post i forgot kobs regen aura (the same that with tactics increase heal of 10%) restore ap too to every group member
Sy if i rage but when i see a kind of putting kobs and chosen on the same table i get crazy

[Glaiveheart]

^ That Chosen use seems awfully limited.

Anyway, I always looked at something like BG (optionally w/ sword and board for Spiteful Slam - I often played sword/board w/ full dps gear and tactics), DPS Chosen (BO if you expected to queue into another Chosen), SH, Choppa, Zealot, Shaman for Destruction. Order-side we'd look at IB, Slayer, KotBS, BW, AM, WP -- though we often ran AM/AM or AM/RP.

Mind you this was before the shitshow that was RR100 so I have no idea what made classes viable/worthless. SH was a legit add to that Destruction group b/c of the snare and spammable HD coupled with the BG's outgoing, plus it was extremely mobile and had useful morale abilities + DPS spike poetntial, and the BG had a huge knockdown if S/B that would proc off the most random attacks in the world AND the super punt that would get a guard a million miles away (esp. if someone snared it).

Anyway, this is a huge tangent. I like the 1.4.9 tank changes the more I think about them so I'd give a thumbs up to those.

[Bozzax]

Lets ponder the implications of 1.4.9 a bit

Giving more damage to SORC/BW
Even for an EA-patch this is .... man what were they smoking?

ENGI/MAGUS love?
Well the 1.4.9 changes aren’t much love at all. Fixing their core problem is either make DOTs more effective or decrease effectiveness of cleanse / group cleanse. Since group cleanse always made DOK/WP a bit over the top compared to the other healers it would be the obvious medicine.

BO and SM "the Skodas" of tanks
First off I think these classes aren't in as bad shape as most think they are. What puzzles me is how did they reason when they decided to add substantial self heal to a tank archetype? A deftard tank with reliable self heals is as bad as the 1.4-mdps-gear procs.

Pimping the "Skodas" in style

• Fix broken trees/(weak) abilities that don't stack (x2 armour buffs, x2 resist debuffs ...)
  Move spec KDs @ 14pts to 10pts
  Add reliable ST KB
  Fix weak shouts/blade enchants some self only (NO SELF HEALS ofc)

Conclusion: for me 1.4.9 is just another bad EA-patch and I'm relieved it didn't go live

[Tesq]

Bozzax those were my conlcusion, if regen should had been put somewhere, itshould had been on def warpforge , where it should had been like it was on sov.
Same for armor buff, personal classes buff should always stack togheter on your characte while not on others. Bo would so much benefit from that both as def and off tank. ( and until buff are personal you can pretty balance all well, what i tell it's look what wp buff with proc chance can become with aoe bomb, or kobs tactics that buff crit or heal for 10% to ALL party......AOE or Party buff should be a lot less effective than the way they are now, if something was designed to be a aoe buff that was chosen aura , kobs took and overpower it in bad way)
Yea dok/wp party cleanse should be removed to make dot classes more efficient, but this is not enough cos there is a limit of 20-30 buff etc you can have at time, with 3 auras, 2 pot, self buff snare and other classes, you make fast to reduce effectiveness of dots on these 2 classes.
A good way would help let magus and engi pop 3 turrent /deamon increasing direct damage or make dot all doing direct damage and then dot. Both reduce dot time and/or change to make them start with high damage and lower it every tick.

[Azarael]

Nobody thinks that all elements of 1.4.9 are viable. BW/Sorc getting WDPS, for example, is bullshit. However, some elements are, even if they don't fix all the problems, and those that are will likely be easier to get implemented than any community modifications. I personally would like to see SM be a useful offensive 2h tank, but I'm sure there will be plenty of people who will pop up to disagree with me.

[Bozzax]

I think SM should be a useful 1h + shield / 2h tank (even was my first toon)

But I also think 1.4.9 was another bad EA-patch. The only part that made some sense IMHO on PTS was the pounce bugfix

[Tesq]

personaly im in favour to every buff to SM/BO---- Engi/magus ----AM/SH(well i know ppl tell they are OP but they arent in end game content)-- IB and BG (some minor fix for ).
I think every classes should fill different roles, so it should be the ppl that play those classes to suggest fix and improvement, others should state if that is too much or maybe if that direction is alredy fill by other classes.
Teleen suggested good fix for AM also a lot of engi suggested a good fix for engi on official forum.

Also those classes are considering underpowered look at other OP classes, OP things should be balance 1rst, starting with CC x realm, kobs(lots of things), mara bugged tactic, slayer shatter limb and spellbraker, chosen destinated to victory.
Those are all gambreaking skill that need to be touch ( not kill).

And you not need a genius to see that 2 Ranged KD on order while destru have 0 are gamebreaking, nor opness of kobs,
the 2 undefiteable aoe moral root on IB/KOBs while destru have 0, mara 50% damage increase, slayer 5sec coldown skill with a CD of 20 sec while choppa fasta is a 2 min coldown, spellbreaker with no coldown, that can remove moral absorb etc,


And i could continue....

[Bozzax]

Bozzax those were my conlcusion, if regen should had been put somewhere, itshould had been on def warpforge , where it should had been like it was on sov.
Same for armor buff, personal classes buff should always stack togheter on your characte while not on others. Bo would so much benefit from that both as def and off tank. ( and until buff are personal you can pretty balance all well, what i tell it's look what wp buff with proc chance can become with aoe bomb, or kobs tactics that buff crit or heal for 10% to ALL party......AOE or Party buff should be a lot less effective than the way they are now, if something was designed to be a aoe buff that was chosen aura , kobs took and overpower it in bad way)
Yea dok/wp party cleanse should be removed to make dot classes more efficient, but this is not enough cos there is a limit of 20-30 buff etc you can have at time, with 3 auras, 2 pot, self buff snare and other classes, you make fast to reduce effectiveness of dots on these 2 classes.
A good way would help let magus and engi pop 3 turrent /deamon increasing direct damage or make dot all doing direct damage and then dot. Both reduce dot time and/or change to make them start with high damage and lower it every tick.

Dropping the hard 20-30 limit and allow debuffs/buffs that aren't visible could be an answer. Also I'd rather like to see testing of reduced range on group cleanse or a % to success instead of a removal. Range and % could be altered until we find blanace. What scares me a bit is the 1-rotation BW/SORCs in such a setting

[Azarael]

If BW/Sorc are causing a problem which is only kept in check by an overpowered feature of another class, which in turn hurts balanced classes, the root of the issue should be attacked.

[Bozzax]

personaly im in favour to every buff to SM/BO---- Engi/magus ----AM/SH(well i know ppl tell they are OP but they arent in end game content)-- IB and BG (some minor fix for ).
I think every classes should fill different roles, so it should be the ppl that play those classes to suggest fix and improvement, others should state if that is too much or maybe if that direction is alredy fill by other classes.
Teleen suggested good fix for AM also a lot of engi suggested a good fix for engi on official forum.

Also those classes are considering underpowered look at other OP classes, OP things should be balance 1rst, starting with CC x realm, kobs(lots of things), mara bugged tactic, slayer shatter limb and spellbraker, chosen destinated to victory.
Those are all gambreaking skill that need to be touch ( not kill).

And you not need a genius to see that 2 Ranged KD on order while destru have 0 are gamebreaking, nor opness of kobs,
the 2 undefiteable aoe moral root on IB/KOBs while destru have 0, mara 50% damage increase, slayer 5sec coldown skill with a CD of 20 sec while choppa fasta is a 2 min coldown, spellbreaker with no coldown, that can remove moral absorb etc,


And i could continue....

Nod my remarks was made regarding 1.4.9 being good or bad

I think not doing incremental small changes are where EA truly failed. Change one or two abilities keep or discard based on feedback and after live testing ensures gradual improvement and a wide acceptance from players. Weekly small steps not quarterly marathons is vastly superior when it comes to fine tuning and keeping the bug troll away