From the first fight we know it's over.

[Alfa1986]

Maybe you should try to remove the entry in the queue for warbands for cities as a test for two weeks. to make possible to que only for 6 men or less, in which case it will be a more uniform/balanced filling of the mirrors.

[Draugris]

I want equal treatment, inclusion rather than exclusion... you see the problem with ranked SC's and on warband level it will be even worse...

Well I guess we have different ideas what equality means. For me equality is putting everybody on a level playing field. This is clearly not the case now. I do not advocate for splitting queues in solo and premade's, I think that would split the player base but I am for 1 queue, either solo or wb based, while I personally would prefer that only full wb´s could queue up.
And I also disagree with your comment about ranked sc´s and warband level, I do not think that nobody would queue up for cities anymore if only wb´s could queue just for the simple fact of missing alternatives for reliably getting tokens.

[Alfa1986]

in order to play well in the premades, essentially nothing is required of the player, healers only need to monitor where dps moves and spam aoe heal skills, + rarely drop a detaunt on enemy dps

Thats not how you play a healer, because if your healers play this way, you will crumble in 10 seconds against any half decent warband.

of course I'm exaggerating a little. it all depends on where and against whom you are playing, if you run into an open RVR and the battle is between 200 * 200, 300*300, then the best tactic for a healer is to hide behind a tree and spam aoe in huge lags), as I wrote.

[Vayra]

I want equal treatment, inclusion rather than exclusion... you see the problem with ranked SC's and on warband level it will be even worse...

Well I guess we have different ideas what equality means. For me equality is putting everybody on a level playing field. This is clearly not the case now. I do not advocate for splitting queues in solo and premade's, I think that would split the player base but I am for 1 queue, either solo or wb based, while I personally would prefer that only full wb´s could queue up.
And I also disagree with your comment about ranked sc´s and warband level, I do not think that nobody would queue up for cities anymore if only wb´s could queue just for the simple fact of missing alternatives for reliably getting tokens.

Everyone starts on a level playing field. Everyone has the ability to organize themselves before going in. Some people have chosen to join guilds or alliances to facilitate this. Others choose not to. Some choose to look for a group before queuing for city. Others choose to go solo. That is a choice. If you choose to not organize you can't expect to perform as well as those who do. Same as if you choose to play a bad spec you can't expect to perform as well as someone running the exact same gear with a better spec.

And if you really can't find a group, you either have to ask yourself why you're not getting invited, or try to make your own.

[Wam]

I want equal treatment, inclusion rather than exclusion... you see the problem with ranked SC's and on warband level it will be even worse...

Well I guess we have different ideas what equality means. For me equality is putting everybody on a level playing field. This is clearly not the case now. I do not advocate for splitting queues in solo and premade's, I think that would split the player base but I am for 1 queue, either solo or wb based, while I personally would prefer that only full wb´s could queue up.
And I also disagree with your comment about ranked sc´s and warband level, I do not think that nobody would queue up for cities anymore if only wb´s could queue just for the simple fact of missing alternatives for reliably getting tokens.

Everyone starts on a level playing field. Everyone has the ability to organize themselves before going in. Some people have chosen to join guilds or alliances to facilitate this. Others choose not to. Some choose to look for a group before queuing for city. Others choose to go solo. That is a choice. If you choose to not organize you can't expect to perform as well as those who do. Same as if you choose to play a bad spec you can't expect to perform as well as someone running the exact same gear with a better spec.

And if you really can't find a group, you either have to ask yourself why you're not getting invited, or try to make your own.

This is the equality i am talking about, ive spent hours of my time making guides and giving advice for it to fall on deaf ears most the time, that is people's choice and their own prerogative... and yes it would fraction the playerbase, you already have divided playerbase on defending vs throwing with people's different personal views and goals no need to make things worse.

I advocate being semi organised to both realms so your chances of success are higher, the gap is closer and more competitive so there is more fun instances... yet i get painted as the bad guy by some because i ask for a minor amount of effort? people not making a effort to get organised, then complain about people who do get organised... then want to change system to punish and infringe upon players who make a effort... that is what I have a issue with... you go to such great lengths for forum warrioring, this time and energy would of been better spent organising instead. Not all solo quers do, but the ones who do want to champion change to fraction community further you want your cake, eat it and zero time spent in kitchen. Learn to bake you never know you might enjoy it.

[Alfa1986]

I want equal treatment, inclusion rather than exclusion... you see the problem with ranked SC's and on warband level it will be even worse...

Well I guess we have different ideas what equality means. For me equality is putting everybody on a level playing field. This is clearly not the case now. I do not advocate for splitting queues in solo and premade's, I think that would split the player base but I am for 1 queue, either solo or wb based, while I personally would prefer that only full wb´s could queue up.
And I also disagree with your comment about ranked sc´s and warband level, I do not think that nobody would queue up for cities anymore if only wb´s could queue just for the simple fact of missing alternatives for reliably getting tokens.

Everyone starts on a level playing field. Everyone has the ability to organize themselves before going in. Some people have chosen to join guilds or alliances to facilitate this. Others choose not to. Some choose to look for a group before queuing for city. Others choose to go solo. That is a choice. If you choose to not organize you can't expect to perform as well as those who do. Same as if you choose to play a bad spec you can't expect to perform as well as someone running the exact same gear with a better spec.

And if you really can't find a group, you either have to ask yourself why you're not getting invited, or try to make your own.

here you are a lot of cunning, because you know very well that if you do not find the group within the first 5 -10 minutes after the city happened, most likely you will not get it at all and just skip the city. this is the main aspect why ppl queue for solo. not enough time to form a premade warband. in this regard, indeed, many players are right who claim that the system is too supportive and friendly to large guilds/alliance, but too cruel to small guilds and solo players. maybe it’s certainly done on purpose, so that people join large guilds and it is easier to manage? mb. Idk. it also matters what class you chose to get into the city, as a healer, I almost never have any obstacles to get into the city, just one message at 5 and after a second I see already invite frame in the center of the screen, as DPS this does not happen never.

[TreefAM]

I am a leader of one of those smaller guilds and I never have issues filling out 12-18 with guildies + people from friendlist, I probably could even go for 24, but that's when the quality of my groups would start dropping (not that they were super strong to begin with). I agree that 10min is not long enough to scramble together something decent if you don't have a pool of players from the guild or alliance, but that's why you start earlier, or you see who of the people that did Orvr with you want to stay for city.

[wonshot]

...many players are right who claim that the system is too supportive and friendly to large guilds/alliance, but too cruel to small guilds and solo players. maybe it’s certainly done on purpose, so that people join large guilds and it is easier to manage? mb. Idk....

Just chipping in with my own experience here. On city launch my guild quickly realized that the meta for orvr and city were completly different, not only didnt we have our members all able to attend in these random hours of city-sieges happening due to irl comitments. But also we had to rethink our setups. We ran to our best succes when we matched our 3fg of aoe-idiot warbanshitters with 6man heroes to a mix of both worlds. We had some great and good fights, and as people got full gear it became harder and harder to fill out the slots so had to rethink the approach again.

We then started to reach out to alliance guilds and have some alliance-wide warband setups, but going back on the drawing board as we started experimenting with setup. Ran too much aoe, too little healer-killing. Too many lowgeared dps players unable to assist and/or compete vs the endgame geared setups. And then had to take a step back from the more competitive fights and gear our new recruit lineup up (order luxuary) basicly dodgeing and queueing looking for other teams on our level who also queued with closed warband 3fg instead of a full 24man stack.

So now we are back at a point where we think our 3-4fg might have gear and we start queueing earlier again and poke the bear in the early instances. For the cities fireing off at really impossible hours we have reached out and expanded the alliance to have some 6man smaller guilds available to assist with a party or less for these moments.

This is alot of effort extra put into just being what most destro see as mediocre performance attendance from us, and that is fine. We focus on our internal progression and have attempted to tacle the issues as we faced them.

So where does this bit of story-time fit into this topic? Well it is very easy to claim the victum role of soloqueing or being lesser organized, and start complaining about how the world is unfair. As someone posted very well on this very page, everything here is a choice. Do you wake up at night to do city, do you put in work to get organized and put yourself in a better possition to win, or just attend for a chance of participation trophies.

Ive been in that spot, facing TUP and fighting for reaching just one killingblow. it is rough! We kept coming at them, tried different things and in the end still got our asses handed to us lol (check their memevideos)
But we learned something minor each fight, we talked it through and tried to improve on the areas where we are lacking. Now are we ready for a TUP insance again? probably not, atleast not for winning. but we have improved internally and next time we face them we might get one more kill and then we take it from there

[Draugris]

Everyone starts on a level playing field.

Clearly not, equality is given if the underlying system enforces it. I mean if you interpreted it that way you do that´s fine, but that´s simply not realistic.

[Nekkma]

here you are a lot of cunning, because you know very well that if you do not find the group within the first 5 -10 minutes after the city happened, most likely you will not get it at all and just skip the city. this is the main aspect why ppl queue for solo. not enough time to form a premade warband. in this regard, indeed, many players are right who claim that the system is too supportive and friendly to large guilds/alliance, but too cruel to small guilds and solo players. maybe it’s certainly done on purpose, so that people join large guilds and it is easier to manage? mb. Idk. it also matters what class you chose to get into the city, as a healer, I almost never have any obstacles to get into the city, just one message at 5 and after a second I see already invite frame in the center of the screen, as DPS this does not happen never.

1. Advertise yourself in /5, get invited, join discord.
2. Was the WB a good experience? If, yes keep discord server. If no, delete server.
3. Next city incoming, check discord if that nice wb needs people? If yes, send tell. If no, back to step 1.

Following this you will after a while have a decent number of discords where the leader know who you are and you get invited (provided you are not an asshat or not up to game play standards). Myself, I have 5 such discord which I have joined for city multiple times each. Occasionally, none of those run groups or are all full and then I'm back to /5 again but those times are really the exception, not the norm.