City Winner History?

[Omegus]

Why would any SH has to solo que for city ? They can just go MSH and pretty much be top tier aoe dps, and no not even pugs want a single SW in any kind of spec, if they take one its because he is either the warband leader or a friend that people doesnt want to offend.

Because... and here comes the rage... order over-rate MSH. In the early days of city it ruined order as the AOE CD increaser was at 5 seconds instead of 3 (and the 2 seconds makes a gigantic difference for healers), nobody had learned to spread out properly and just run into each other in blobs, etc. As time went on the city meta has changed dramatically and MSH doesn't really have the tools that destro wants. Yes it can do good AOE damage, but so can Choppa and Mara. It needs CD reducers to do any good form of AOE damage (Big Bouncing) otherwise it's stuck doing single target in between. Yes it has great mobility, but much like a suicidal WL with no tank to keep up with you it dies when it lands.

Choppas have consistant AOE pressure as do Marauders. Choppas are choppier and have one set of tools, Maras are tankier and have another set of tools. MSH doesn't really do much other than really really annoy people which is why it gets more hate than it deserves compared to the other DPS).

It's the same issue with the Shaman. Great set of tools, just not particularly meta at the moment. Doesn't mean it's bad, just not the #1 most desired thing.

[Lamiosa]

Maybe it is just personal experience. I more often lose than win myself being destruction. But mostly with unorganized random people. Brain is more worth than gear, it is no use, if you have people full equipped who run brainless into enemies or do not care about objectives.
You see it more clearly at open RvR than instances, if a wb does not listen to leader or a wb does not even have a good leader.

[agemennon675]

Why would any SH has to solo que for city ? They can just go MSH and pretty much be top tier aoe dps, and no not even pugs want a single SW in any kind of spec, if they take one its because he is either the warband leader or a friend that people doesnt want to offend.

Because... and here comes the rage... order over-rate MSH. In the early days of city it ruined order as the AOE CD increaser was at 5 seconds instead of 3 (and the 2 seconds makes a gigantic difference for healers), nobody had learned to spread out properly and just run into each other in blobs, etc. As time went on the city meta has changed dramatically and MSH doesn't really have the tools that destro wants. Yes it can do good AOE damage, but so can Choppa and Mara. It needs CD reducers to do any good form of AOE damage (Big Bouncing) otherwise it's stuck doing single target in between. Yes it has great mobility, but much like a suicidal WL with no tank to keep up with you it dies when it lands.

Choppas have consistant AOE pressure as do Marauders. Choppas are choppier and have one set of tools, Maras are tankier and have another set of tools. MSH doesn't really do much other than really really annoy people which is why it gets more hate than it deserves compared to the other DPS).

It's the same issue with the Shaman. Great set of tools, just not particularly meta at the moment. Doesn't mean it's bad, just not the #1 most desired thing.

Isnt cd increaser still 5 sec ? Edit: Its 3 sec, still a huge deal for everyone

[baurogg]

Brain is more worth than gear

And the right class is more worth than brains in this game.

[Foofmonger]

Why would any SH has to solo que for city ? They can just go MSH and pretty much be top tier aoe dps, and no not even pugs want a single SW in any kind of spec, if they take one its because he is either the warband leader or a friend that people doesnt want to offend.

Because... and here comes the rage... order over-rate MSH. In the early days of city it ruined order as the AOE CD increaser was at 5 seconds instead of 3 (and the 2 seconds makes a gigantic difference for healers), nobody had learned to spread out properly and just run into each other in blobs, etc. As time went on the city meta has changed dramatically and MSH doesn't really have the tools that destro wants. Yes it can do good AOE damage, but so can Choppa and Mara. It needs CD reducers to do any good form of AOE damage (Big Bouncing) otherwise it's stuck doing single target in between. Yes it has great mobility, but much like a suicidal WL with no tank to keep up with you it dies when it lands.

Choppas have consistant AOE pressure as do Marauders. Choppas are choppier and have one set of tools, Maras are tankier and have another set of tools. MSH doesn't really do much other than really really annoy people which is why it gets more hate than it deserves compared to the other DPS).

It's the same issue with the Shaman. Great set of tools, just not particularly meta at the moment. Doesn't mean it's bad, just not the #1 most desired thing.

I think MSHs are actually still more useful than Destro gives them credit for, and I think Order does also overrate them.

My personal anecdotal opinion is that I don't see very many good MSHs. Maybe they are in other guilds I don't play with, but I can only find a handful of people who can understand how to play the class well (some of which we play with). For instance, when Franchise and Uchoo went on their 2 man stage 3 healer downing marathon, that was a great example of the power of a MSH in action (CD reduction + smart use of mobility and not suicide diving). Pounce is a fantastic tool that is almost always strong, even in city situations, and the fact that the vast majority of the playerbase use their pounces improperly doesn't reduce the potential of that mobility when used appropriately. Sometimes one of the worst things you can do is use your pounce to "initiate" or "at the start of an engagement", as you waste it for no reason, go in first, and get yourself instabbiged/killed for your mis-use of such a powerful ability. This applies to WLs and ASWs as well, although I find ASW players tend to know how to use it, probably because theres like 3 of them in cities.

Now, you do have to pair a MSH with a Choppa to get the most out of it, but that particular combo (and theres plenty of choppas) is strong enough to warrant playing in city, even over a Mara. Our personal issue is that we don't have many active MSH players that we can find for city who are geared. And we have a ton of Maras/Choppas. Realistically speaking, snagging the extra CD increaser and the mobility can certainly be a reasonable line of play over another aoe interrupt, because the damage is frankly very similar.

The three man combination of BG/Choppa/MSH can be extremely gross as a ST assist train, kind of like a less mobile version of SM/WL/ASW but with more AoE damage.

[teiloh]

Why would any SH has to solo que for city ? They can just go MSH and pretty much be top tier aoe dps, and no not even pugs want a single SW in any kind of spec, if they take one its because he is either the warband leader or a friend that people doesnt want to offend.

Because... and here comes the rage... order over-rate MSH. In the early days of city it ruined order as the AOE CD increaser was at 5 seconds instead of 3 (and the 2 seconds makes a gigantic difference for healers), nobody had learned to spread out properly and just run into each other in blobs, etc. As time went on the city meta has changed dramatically and MSH doesn't really have the tools that destro wants. Yes it can do good AOE damage, but so can Choppa and Mara. It needs CD reducers to do any good form of AOE damage (Big Bouncing) otherwise it's stuck doing single target in between. Yes it has great mobility, but much like a suicidal WL with no tank to keep up with you it dies when it lands.

Choppas have consistant AOE pressure as do Marauders. Choppas are choppier and have one set of tools, Maras are tankier and have another set of tools. MSH doesn't really do much other than really really annoy people which is why it gets more hate than it deserves compared to the other DPS).

It's the same issue with the Shaman. Great set of tools, just not particularly meta at the moment. Doesn't mean it's bad, just not the #1 most desired thing.

CD increaser is still 5s if you hit enough targets. Saying "if you have CD reducer only" in Destro is like saying if you're a fish in water. Every Destro WB will have 4-12 CD reducers that are all superior to the SM version by far. Pounce on a class like the mSH which is used for splash damage and harassment is far better in a WB than on WL whose job it is to get and confirm kills. Not to mention Order doesn't have the oodles of non-immunity KB BS that Destro does.

[satanlol]

Why would any SH has to solo que for city ? They can just go MSH and pretty much be top tier aoe dps, and no not even pugs want a single SW in any kind of spec, if they take one its because he is either the warband leader or a friend that people doesnt want to offend.

Because... and here comes the rage... order over-rate MSH. In the early days of city it ruined order as the AOE CD increaser was at 5 seconds instead of 3 (and the 2 seconds makes a gigantic difference for healers), nobody had learned to spread out properly and just run into each other in blobs, etc. As time went on the city meta has changed dramatically and MSH doesn't really have the tools that destro wants. Yes it can do good AOE damage, but so can Choppa and Mara. It needs CD reducers to do any good form of AOE damage (Big Bouncing) otherwise it's stuck doing single target in between. Yes it has great mobility, but much like a suicidal WL with no tank to keep up with you it dies when it lands.

Choppas have consistant AOE pressure as do Marauders. Choppas are choppier and have one set of tools, Maras are tankier and have another set of tools. MSH doesn't really do much other than really really annoy people which is why it gets more hate than it deserves compared to the other DPS).

It's the same issue with the Shaman. Great set of tools, just not particularly meta at the moment. Doesn't mean it's bad, just not the #1 most desired thing.

CD increaser is still 5s if you hit enough targets. Saying "if you have CD reducer only" in Destro is like saying if you're a fish in water. Every Destro WB will have 4-12 CD reducers that are all superior to the SM version by far. Pounce on a class like the mSH which is used for splash damage and harassment is far better in a WB than on WL whose job it is to get and confirm kills. Not to mention Order doesn't have the oodles of non-immunity KB BS that Destro does.

You are more than often wrong in many of the posts you make on these forums.

Read these patch notes: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=35369

[Omegus]

CD increaser is still 5s if you hit enough targets. Saying "if you have CD reducer only" in Destro is like saying if you're a fish in water. Every Destro WB will have 4-12 CD reducers that are all superior to the SM version by far. Pounce on a class like the mSH which is used for splash damage and harassment is far better in a WB than on WL whose job it is to get and confirm kills. Not to mention Order doesn't have the oodles of non-immunity KB BS that Destro does.

You are more than often wrong in many of the posts you make on these forums.

Read these patch notes: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=35369

It was nerfed over 5 months ago and order is still crying about it. Hard to have a discussion about metas and viability when we get posts like this.

edit: Cities had 12-13 days of 5 second AOE increasers, and over 5 months without them.

[Ramlaen]

Yesterday, see Order eeked out their first city win in weeks nothing is wrong.

Today, oh...

[Spellbound]

Yesterday, see Order eeked out their first city win in weeks nothing is wrong.

Today, oh...

I mentioned today was gonna be a complete 180 in result.

Some 12 man, some 24 man, so lets round it off to 18 players per instance and 21 of them lost in the 3-21. So 378 players are bad at MMOs and need to learn to play. Absolutely no reason at all why the Destro pop is very large and most can't get into the city pop... no reason at all. The design of the classes has nothing to do with why Order plays less tanks or healers, totally player fault. Some current Destro guilds played on Order for 2-3 months and went back to Destro, no reason at all hmm. RoR vets here that played both sides felt the difference on Destro side.

Then again, those players have the wrong genetics and weren't meant for gaming. Leave balance as is, they'll figure it out in the next 5 months, switch or quit. Lets wait and see. Cheers