Why do fans hate "The End Times"?

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Hooley
Posts: 82

Re: Why do fans hate "The End Times"?

Post#11 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:04 pm

TenTonHammer wrote:
And you read how they killed off Malekith? After saving that ungrateful evererqueen as the world was literally collapsing his legs get crushed that ungrateful woman taunts him after he just saved her life.
Haven't gotten that far yet, I'm about to start Volume IV: Thanquol.

Also, I never really knew about Malus Darkblade. My first experience with him is in "The End Times", would you recommend his books?
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Hooley
Posts: 82

Re: Why do fans hate "The End Times"?

Post#12 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:14 pm

Scrilian wrote:
Hooley wrote: I'm relieved to here there's someone in my camp. The scale of this conflict feels Toklien. I thought Khaine was phenomenal, I couldn't put down the book. Alith Anar is like Batman, Malekith's redemption/fulfillment of destiny was awesome, the merging between the three factions was solid, all-in-all I thought it was great stuff.

Are you a long time fan of Warhammer Fantasy? I'm starting to think one of the reasons I have a positive perception of this lore is because I'm new to the hobby.
Not a long time fan, that's for sure. The first I've read was the Trollslayer back in 2007 so by the whole FB standards is rather late to the party. And from that day forward I embraced the WH FB 6-7th edition rulebooks. Although some of my old-timer friends disliked the ET quite a bit.
Have you read the Curse of Khaine novel yet? It accompanies the Khaine Vol.3 and provides a more personal look on the Malekith and his hatred driven saga, plus clarifies some grey spots from the actual ET Volume, like why did Imrik betrayed Ulthuan or how did Funibar die.
Right on. To answer your question, I have not read the Curse of Khaine. Is the "Curse of Khaine" an official "End Times" novel? Or is it just a separate story entirely? The only reason I ask, is because I thought I purchased the whole "End Times Collection". The following books I have are...

1) Nagash
2) Glottkin
3) Khaine
4) Thanquol
5) Archaon


Maybe I'm a scrub, are there more?
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Scrilian
Posts: 1570

Re: Why do fans hate "The End Times"?

Post#13 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:16 pm

Well if you are reading only the Volumes, then you are missing out on almost half of the story.
Here is a close enough chronological reading list:
Spoiler:
Archaon, Everchosen (2390 - )
Archaon, Lord of Chaos ( - 2519)
QR: Sigmar's Blood
QR: The Bone Cage
QR: With Ice and Sword
The Return of Nagash (late sum 2522 - erl wint 2524)
The End Times I: Nagash Part 1
Gotrek & Felix: Kinslayer (aut 2524 - erl spg 2525)
The End Times II: Glottkin Part 1 (spg 2525 - aut 2525)
QR: Marienburg's Stand (erl wint 2525 - erl wint 2525)
The Fall of Altdorf (late wint 2524 - erl wint 2525)
QR: The Siege of Naggarond (2523 - )
QR: Bride of Khaine (2523 - )
Deathblade (wint 2523 - aut 2524)
The End Times III: Khaine Part 1 (wint 2524 - wint 2526)
The Curse of Khaine
The Rise of the Horned Rat (aut 2523 - aut 2527)
The End Times IV: Thanquol Part 1 (aut 2523 - aut 2527)
QR: Gotrek & Felix: Rememberers (wint 2526 - wint 2526)
Gotrek & Felix: Slayer (erl spg 2527 - erl sum 2527)
The End Times V: Archaon Part 1 (spg 2528 - aut 2528)
Lord of the End Times (aut 2527 - aut 2528)
(QR - small story, else - a novel)
http://www.blacklibrary.com/Home/endtimes.html
But still some of the previous saga's should be considered mandatory, like the whole Gotrek and Felix series, Time of Legends series, Vampire Wars and some small series about Thanquol, Skarsnik, Queek etc.
Last edited by Scrilian on Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ninepaces
Posts: 313

Re: Why do fans hate "The End Times"?

Post#14 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:17 pm

because essentially one of the greatest fantasy worlds and games was ended because GW thought they would make more money with a new IP, when all they had to do was slightly fix the rules of the game.

the story itself was full of plot-holes and unsatisfactory endings for certain races.

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Hooley
Posts: 82

Re: Why do fans hate "The End Times"?

Post#15 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:28 pm

Scrilian wrote:Well if you are reading only the Volumes, then you are missing out on almost half of the story.
Here is a close enough chronological reading list:
Spoiler:
Archaon, Everchosen (2390 - )
Archaon, Lord of Chaos ( - 2519)
QR: Sigmar's Blood
QR: The Bone Cage
QR: With Ice and Sword
The Return of Nagash (late sum 2522 - erl wint 2524)
The End Times I: Nagash Part 1
Gotrek & Felix: Kinslayer (aut 2524 - erl spg 2525)
The End Times II: Glottkin Part 1 (spg 2525 - aut 2525)
QR: Marienburg's Stand (erl wint 2525 - erl wint 2525)
The Fall of Altdorf (late wint 2524 - erl wint 2525)
QR: The Siege of Naggarond (223 - )
QR: Bride of Khaine (223 - )
Deathblade (wint 2523 - aut 2524)
The End Times III: Khaine Part 1 (wint 2524 - wint 2526)
The Curse of Khaine
The Rise of the Horned Rat (aut 2523 - aut 2527)
The End Times IV: Thanquol Part 1 (aut 2523 - aut 2527)
QR: Gotrek & Felix: Rememberers (wint 2526 - wint 2526)
Gotrek & Felix: Slayer (erl spg 2527 - erl sum 2527)
The End Times V: Archaon Part 1 (spg 2528 - aut 2528)
Lord of the End Times (aut 2527 - aut 2528)
(QR - small story, else - a novel)
http://www.blacklibrary.com/Home/endtimes.html
But still some of the previous saga's should be considered mandatory, like the whole Gotrek and Felix series, Time of Legends series, Vampire Wars and some small series about Thanquol, Skarsnik, Queek etc.
Holy Sigmar!! Are you kidding me?! I dropped the ball hard on that one, although I'm relieved the volumes I do have still hold well on their own without preamble stories from the novels you listed above. Nonetheless, this is very helpful Scrilian. Thank you for enlightening me.

This makes a lot sense now, because while reading the volumes I got the vibe that there was a lot of untapped potential on expanding specific characters or events; these novels seem like they can fill some plot-holes. Unfortunately, I have not plunged too far into the Gotrek & Felix Series, Time of Legends, etc. I only read the first omnibus for Gotrek & Felix and I read "The Shadow King" because I think Alith Anar is OG.

Once you finish "The End Times", do you plan on reading the "Age of Sigmar" lore, I believe it starts with "The Realmgate Wars"?
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Scrilian
Posts: 1570

Re: Why do fans hate "The End Times"?

Post#16 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:33 pm

Then if you just finished Khaine Vol.3 - read the Curse of Khaine right now, it fills almost every plot hole and the story actually quite funny at times where Naggarothian Tyrant tries to indulge himself in the Ulthuani etiquette and bosses his "nephew" around.
And some serious insights on why he should be the one who saves his people, why he failed the flames and why did he burn.
Hooley wrote: Once you finish "The End Times", do you plan on reading the "Age of Sigmar" lore, I believe it starts with "The Realmgate Wars"?
Probly just gona kill myself instead :D
Last edited by Scrilian on Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hooley
Posts: 82

Re: Why do fans hate "The End Times"?

Post#17 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:35 pm

Ninepaces wrote:because essentially one of the greatest fantasy worlds and games was ended because GW thought they would make more money with a new IP, when all they had to do was slightly fix the rules of the game.

the story itself was full of plot-holes and unsatisfactory endings for certain races.
I understand Games Workshop would want to make more money, just like any other company with a successful IP. But isn't it true that a lot of Warhammer fans called for the story to progress for both Warhammer Fantasy/ Warhammer 40K? I thought there was a lot of feedback from the community of players wanting the lore to stop remaining stagnant. Or am I incorrect?
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Hooley
Posts: 82

Re: Why do fans hate "The End Times"?

Post#18 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:38 pm

Scrilian wrote:Then if you just finished Khaine Vol.3 - read the Curse of Khaine right now, it fills almost every plot hole and the story actually quite funny at times where Naggarothian Tyrant tries to indulge himself in the Ulthuani etiquette and bosses his "nephew" around.
And some serious insights on why he should be the one who saves his people, why he failed the flames and why did he burn.
Hooley wrote: Once you finish "The End Times", do you plan on reading the "Age of Sigmar" lore, I believe it starts with "The Realmgate Wars"?
Probly just gona kill myself instead :D
Good deal, I'll definitely have to give that a gander! That sounds great, I was puzzled with the flames and Phoenix King discrepancy, glad there's more clarification on that.

LOL. Is the "AoS" lore really supposed to be that awful?
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Ninepaces
Posts: 313

Re: Why do fans hate "The End Times"?

Post#19 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:41 pm

re Money: Sure they have to make money, but also you have to remember how incompetent GW are as a firm. They don't advertise, they don't ask customers what they want, they overprice everything, the ONE good thing they had in terms of fantasy was their IP.

re story progressing: Some (not all) fans wanted some progression, but not Armageddon! There are hundreds of creatives ways the situation in the fantasy world could have changed.

More fans wanted balanced army books and a main game book that was clear and didn't require multi-page community driven FAQs. The biggest tournaments all had HEAVY comp packs, limiting blatantly overpowered setups. We complain a lot here on ROR about balance because its a natural thing to do but its nothing compared to the imbalance of vanilla warhammer fantasy 8th edition.

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Scrilian
Posts: 1570

Re: Why do fans hate "The End Times"?

Post#20 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:50 pm

I love WH FB for the same reason Tolkien fans love their world or the STAR WARS fans love theirs.
It's deep rich almost 6 thousand years of iconic lore, that is based on fantasy ciches, real life myths and legends. There are thousands of lists of paper about something that exists and another thousand about why and how.
I sincerely doubt that any reboot of any universe can produce the same experience when you read it - a truly Old World - so I would be really surprised that Sigmarines and the Age of Whatever turn out to be a great read.
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