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Why some of us OG's Get upset

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papakami
Posts: 16

Re: Why some of us OG's Get upset

Post#11 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:26 pm

Bretin wrote:
Well, for the simple Reason, that tanks are quite sturdy, but mostly dont do real damage on their own. Their main objectiv is, to redirect damage from the DD and healers to themselves. So if you attack them before you take care of the others, you play right in their hands. Of course, you should differ between Off and Deff tanks. Offtanks do more damage than defftanks but are als easier to kill, so sometimes the first rule might not apply for them, it might be worth killing them quick. But for the most cases, first kill the healers, then the DD and then, take yout time with the Tanks, you will need it.
i basically asked that one question just to check your knowledge and yet you disappointed me. the main objectiv of a tank is not to redirect damage. they have multiple jobs and yet the tank archetype has the biggest impact on the battlefield. they are responsible for most of the CC, to negate damage & to deal damage. a good tank can control a battlefield on his own. due to the fact that they have by far the largest impact on the outcome of an fight, it is quite often important to shut them down before anything else. ofc that doesn't always makes sense, especially not when the enemy group has 2 tanks who are both capable of swapping guard (take care of each other). but one thing is for sure: if the enemy tank dies, the fight is basically won. losing a tank is worse than losing a healer because the amount of pressure it generates on your group is insane. so whenever you have the chance to drop a tank, do it.

note: that doesn't mean to always go for the tank first, the situation matters a lot but saying "ignore tanks" or "don't hit tanks" is just a proof of little to no knowledge about target calls.


You are right, always taking out the healer first, is not gonna cut it, sometimes attacking the DD is also neccesary, but in my opinion, thats the purpose of the offtank, to hold off the melee DD, while the real DD kill the healers.
aha.. i want to see how that works ingame. if you want your group to work they have to assist. splitting your offtank from the rest of the train which is supposed to chase the healer in your scenerio will end in an full wipe after 30seconds. though for your team ofc. a offtank can't pressure a guarded dps all alone and if you let him stick to deal fluff damage it will make you end up losing one guard on your dps e.g. providing a free kill for the enemy team.
Because the Simple fact is, to kill a well played and healed Tank is nearly impossible.
not true.
It is way easier to pressure the Meele DD wirh your tanks take out the Ranged DD with your Ranged and kill the Healer with your Meele.
i really appreciate your theorycrafting and that you want to share informations which are supposed to let people improve their gameplay. in general this would be a good thing but yet this advice is really really bad and you should rethink everything of your post.

range dps focus range dps: great, the one who is trying to do so will end up in melee range and get caught. once they are caught, they die.
melee dps chase healer: great, free kills.
tanks killing melees: cool story, that will never happen thanks to no healdebuff and not enough damage.

ps: if it sounds a bit harsh i am sorry. i don't try to put you down or whatever but the post is really not that great or helpful at all and it will force new players into doing the wrong things.
Literally some of the dumbest responses I've ever seen.

Tanks #1 ability = guard.

Guard does what again? redirect damage

you're welcome
Myrgo - RP

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RyanMakara
Posts: 1563

Re: Why some of us OG's Get upset

Post#12 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:40 pm

papakami wrote:
Bretin wrote:
Well, for the simple Reason, that tanks are quite sturdy, but mostly dont do real damage on their own. Their main objectiv is, to redirect damage from the DD and healers to themselves. So if you attack them before you take care of the others, you play right in their hands. Of course, you should differ between Off and Deff tanks. Offtanks do more damage than defftanks but are als easier to kill, so sometimes the first rule might not apply for them, it might be worth killing them quick. But for the most cases, first kill the healers, then the DD and then, take yout time with the Tanks, you will need it.
i basically asked that one question just to check your knowledge and yet you disappointed me. the main objectiv of a tank is not to redirect damage. they have multiple jobs and yet the tank archetype has the biggest impact on the battlefield. they are responsible for most of the CC, to negate damage & to deal damage. a good tank can control a battlefield on his own. due to the fact that they have by far the largest impact on the outcome of an fight, it is quite often important to shut them down before anything else. ofc that doesn't always makes sense, especially not when the enemy group has 2 tanks who are both capable of swapping guard (take care of each other). but one thing is for sure: if the enemy tank dies, the fight is basically won. losing a tank is worse than losing a healer because the amount of pressure it generates on your group is insane. so whenever you have the chance to drop a tank, do it.

note: that doesn't mean to always go for the tank first, the situation matters a lot but saying "ignore tanks" or "don't hit tanks" is just a proof of little to no knowledge about target calls.


You are right, always taking out the healer first, is not gonna cut it, sometimes attacking the DD is also neccesary, but in my opinion, thats the purpose of the offtank, to hold off the melee DD, while the real DD kill the healers.
aha.. i want to see how that works ingame. if you want your group to work they have to assist. splitting your offtank from the rest of the train which is supposed to chase the healer in your scenerio will end in an full wipe after 30seconds. though for your team ofc. a offtank can't pressure a guarded dps all alone and if you let him stick to deal fluff damage it will make you end up losing one guard on your dps e.g. providing a free kill for the enemy team.
Because the Simple fact is, to kill a well played and healed Tank is nearly impossible.
not true.
It is way easier to pressure the Meele DD wirh your tanks take out the Ranged DD with your Ranged and kill the Healer with your Meele.
i really appreciate your theorycrafting and that you want to share informations which are supposed to let people improve their gameplay. in general this would be a good thing but yet this advice is really really bad and you should rethink everything of your post.

range dps focus range dps: great, the one who is trying to do so will end up in melee range and get caught. once they are caught, they die.
melee dps chase healer: great, free kills.
tanks killing melees: cool story, that will never happen thanks to no healdebuff and not enough damage.

ps: if it sounds a bit harsh i am sorry. i don't try to put you down or whatever but the post is really not that great or helpful at all and it will force new players into doing the wrong things.
Literally some of the dumbest responses I've ever seen.

Tanks #1 ability = guard.

Guard does what again? redirect damage

you're welcome
If you play your tank as nothing but a guardbot, I suggest rerolling. Guard may be the #1 ability for tanks, doesn't mean it's the -only- thing they should be doing.
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papakami
Posts: 16

Re: Why some of us OG's Get upset

Post#13 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:53 pm

you should try reading before posting.

OP said main objective of tank is to redirect damage.

Then you got this bit of non-sense
bretin wrote:i basically asked that one question just to check your knowledge and yet you disappointed me. the main objectiv of a tank is not to redirect damage.
sorry but that's incorrect. the main objective is to redirect damage. it is their undisputed #1 ability.

It is not the only thing they do. But OP didn't say it was, nor did I. Just that it is the main objective.
Myrgo - RP

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Why some of us OG's Get upset

Post#14 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:02 pm

uh the main thing a tank has to do is control the battle. as bretin said, you are responsible for pushing; you are responsible for the most important CC (ChCh, KB, KDs); you are responsible for challenging/guarding/damage reduction.
all are important, but most important is dictating the battle imo - so no, his comments weren't stupid. saying 'dumbest responses' is deeply offensive towards bretin and I am sure he is very hurt by that.
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Vigfuss
Posts: 383

Re: Why some of us OG's Get upset

Post#15 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:08 pm

Bretin gives a real answer, but most players just want the most simple and basic strategy.
Fusscle of Critical Acclaim

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papakami
Posts: 16

Re: Why some of us OG's Get upset

Post#16 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:11 pm

This is the advice of the 6man crowd? lol.

If you do not think that having your tank use guard and redirect damage is the MAIN objective for them to do... then you are hopeless. Your "knowledge" would be extremely disappointing.

I challenge you to play your 6man while having your tank not guard. LOL

I've seen more than a few CA premades get completely rekted BECAUSE their tank doesn't place guard and correctly redirect damage. The unguarded melee is immediately identified and immediately dispatched.

it is, without question, the MAIN objective. Any response to the latter is completely ignorant.
Myrgo - RP

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Vigfuss
Posts: 383

Re: Why some of us OG's Get upset

Post#17 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:15 pm

papakami wrote:This is the advice of the 6man crowd? lol.

If you do not think that having your tank use guard and redirect damage is the MAIN objective for them to do... then you are hopeless. Your "knowledge" would be extremely disappointing.

I challenge you to play your 6man while having your tank not guard. LOL

I've seen more than a few CA premades get completely rekted BECAUSE their tank doesn't place guard and correctly redirect damage. The unguarded melee is immediately identified and immediately dispatched.

it is, without question, the MAIN objective. Any response to the latter is completely ignorant.
And you just point out that the tanks role has a huge impact on the outcome of a fight. Imagine if he was dead. That was the point wasn't it?
Fusscle of Critical Acclaim

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Why some of us OG's Get upset

Post#18 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:17 pm

what crowd do you belong to i wonder to take a jab at people/groups that pretty much specialise in utilising tanks to their utmost capacity, i.e. correct usage of cc, guard swapping, etc.?

most of that is just strawmanstrawman rabblerabble ignore the points made re tank being the vital ingredient in pushing and CC/assume people dont use guard

please refrain from personal insults or i will be forced to report you
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StormX2
Game Master
Posts: 1080

Re: Why some of us OG's Get upset

Post#19 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:19 pm

well a battle is a dynamic event. Sometimes taking out the DPS and his likely 2h Guard is the smarted choice you can make.

But its 100% Circumstantial.

I like a strong melee train group, cus then I don't have to pay attention to guard swapping as much ;p
Also helps to have some sturdy heals

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Telen
Suspended
Posts: 2542
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Re: Why some of us OG's Get upset

Post#20 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:20 pm

Nothing worse as a rdps to be sitting on my m2 and the tank and mdps are off being kited somewhere. Guard is important. Thats why I want you stripping it from their dps.
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