Changelog 4th June, 2016

[Broseidon]

It's not what's supposed to happen it's what will actually happen. I can assume the public to be smart, which is not the case, this does not automatically mean they will act smart simply because I assume they will. It's a poor choice to make the defender's job easier.

Regardless, I'm not part of the team, I didn't do any research to see how this would work. Y'all make the decisions and that's on you. I hope there is something found to balance this, or reverse it.

[wargrimnir]

Attackers also use siege weapons. The meta of 50 dudes punching a door to death is changing. The public will change with it, might take some time.

[Zanilos]

- Artillery weapons inflict more damage against clustered infantry. The implementation boils down to: anyone within 10ft of any person who is struck by an artillery weapon will take half of the damage that person received. Because the RvR implementation is vastly incomplete (but this is a feature of it) and future controls on siege weapons do not exist yet, the maximum number of splash hits any person can receive from an individual artillery shot has been limited to 4, for a maximum of 1800 damage dealt.

This works very well for a single artillery weapon. If there are a few coordinated, shooting at the same place this is very very powerful. I would say this is even much stronger than the current oil. 2 of us aiming at the same place gave us 30 kills in about 2 minutes. A few minutes later I had gotten more than 30 officer's medallions. If there are 3 or more coordinated artillery weapons, I don't think any attackers will be able to conquer any somewhat defended keep now. (I didn't notice any damage decrease after the skill db restart (same siege weapon used)).

They could always spread out and negate the values of the guns which seems to be the point....

But what if you setup AOE cannons on the ground between inner and outer, which you can, and then just focus ram area?

Then, what if, by some miracle... you find someone who will time oil setup for when people push in, while also firing the cannons? Seeing as they are not bound by LoS you can set them up in places where the attackers simply cant hit.

We already have issues attacking. Defending was the easy part. We just don't have any guilds doing RvR to show it. Only zergs.

[Zanilos]

Attackers also use siege weapons. The meta of 50 dudes punching a door to death is changing. The public will change with it, might take some time.

Uhhh, no. The range of the cannons only benfits defenders. What I will personally do is go to EVERY keep and work out the max range of aoe cannons, set up as many as I can before keep defenses and just cheese it. All that will change is even less keep attacks.

I will put money on a 6 man being able to defend vs 1 WB.

[Epo]

Attackers also use siege weapons. The meta of 50 dudes punching a door to death is changing. The public will change with it, might take some time.

Doubtful, the community won't change, everyone tries to avoid fights as it is, it was the same on live. There is no "meta" of punching a door, it's how the game has always been. Even tonight everyone just flips zones when it comes to besieging a keep. There is too much trying to re-invent the wheel going on here sadly.

[Azarael]

Bit of background info.

Under the future RvR system, most siege weapons are capable of being towed by horses and are requisitioned from areas on the map using supply (which is gained from holding BOs), a supply cap (which is linked to the number of BOs held), and contribution, which is a group/guild/individual resource which can be flexibly allocated and is used for purchasing heavy weapons and war materièl. The heavy weapons themselves, as well as some other additions, are intended to ensure that using a human wave attack against a lesser-manned defensive position will not succeed and that combined arms and flanking tactics must be used.

The intention is that the following counterplays and checks exist to artillery:

1) Siege cannons outrange artillery by about 150ft (400ft range vs 250ft). This check isn't working because the damage received by siege weapons is currently broken on live and because RoR for what I'll assume are optimization reasons has a draw distance of 300 feet, rather than the 400 feet that Age of Reckoning did. I'm experimenting with increasing this to 350 feet.

2) Spreading out. This isn't yet working because the underlying RvR system hasn't changed, so while the weapons are performing their role, which is to crush wave attacks, the incentive to wave hasn't been removed.

3) Flanking. Can't flank a keep too well.

4) Supply blocking. By holding BOs, you restrict the number of heavy weapons and other materièl that the enemy realm is willing to release to their troops, and increase that of your own. This in combination with heavy weapons was designed to solve the problems of worthless BOs and the lack of punishment dealt to a realm for forfeiting map control and retreating to their keep. In this case, the attacking realm supply blocks the keep, and the defending realm can field far fewer weapons than the attackers.

I've rectified the issues with Siege HP and incorrect damage resistance to the Cannon and Artillery damagetypes for the next update, so counter #1 should work, forcing the defenders to leave the keep if they wish to destroy the attacking cannons.

So, in short, this is a small part of something else. If it's too much for the time being, I'll comment out the damage scaling. It's no big issue.

[Zanilos]

Spoiler:

Bit of background info.

Under the future RvR system, most siege weapons are capable of being towed by horses and are requisitioned from areas on the map using supply (which is gained from holding BOs), a supply cap (which is linked to the number of BOs held), and contribution, which is a group/guild/individual resource which can be flexibly allocated and is used for purchasing heavy weapons and war materièl. The heavy weapons themselves, as well as some other additions, are intended to ensure that using a human wave attack against a lesser-manned defensive position will not succeed and that combined arms and flanking tactics must be used.

The intention is that the following counterplays and checks exist to artillery:

1) Siege cannons outrange artillery by about 150ft (400ft range vs 250ft). This check isn't working because the damage received by siege weapons is currently broken on live and because RoR for what I'll assume are optimization reasons has a draw distance of 300 feet, rather than the 400 feet that Age of Reckoning did. I'm experimenting with increasing this to 350 feet.

2) Spreading out. This isn't yet working because the underlying RvR system hasn't changed, so while the weapons are performing their role, which is to crush wave attacks, the incentive to wave hasn't been removed.

3) Flanking. Can't flank a keep too well.

4) Supply blocking. By holding BOs, you restrict the number of heavy weapons and other materièl that the enemy realm is willing to release to their troops, and increase that of your own. This in combination with heavy weapons was designed to solve the problems of worthless BOs and the lack of punishment dealt to a realm for forfeiting map control and retreating to their keep. In this case, the attacking realm supply blocks the keep, and the defending realm can field far fewer weapons than the attackers.

I've rectified the issues with Siege HP and incorrect damage resistance to the Cannon and Artillery damagetypes for the next update, so counter #1 should work, forcing the defenders to leave the keep if they wish to destroy the attacking cannons.

So, in short, this is a small part of something else. If it's too much for the time being, I'll comment out the damage scaling. It's no big issue.

It sounds weird as ****, but as per usual juries out and can't judge until we see it.

What do you mean by, The heavy weapons themselves, as well as some other additions, are intended to ensure that using a human wave attack against a lesser-manned defensive position will not succeed and that combined arms and flanking tactics must be used.

If I take your post on face value. All I can see happening is dead lakes. People not bothering to play because they are not organized. Like Epo said already, most of the issues are community based ones. Especially in RvR lakes. We have a lot of sheep, not many shepards

[Azarael]

Sheep have no need for shepherds in a land without wolves.

To put it another way, if you want people to organize, you have to set up conditions which promote or require doing so. If you do not, then they will not.

Frankly, sometimes it feels that people want solutions, but they also want nothing to change at the same time.

[Zanilos]

Sheep have no need for shepherds in a land without wolves.

To put it another way, if you want people to organize, you have to set up conditions which promote or require doing so. If you do not, then they will not.

Frankly, sometimes it feels that people want solutions, but they also want nothing to change at the same time.

I agree. Unfortunately it is our job as tester to critique the changes proposed and test them. A lot of people have very thick rose tinted glasses when it comes to WAR.

All the wolves are on a break because doors take 3 weeks to break ... and 50,000 Russians in blobs in EU primetime.

[Genisaurus]

Spoiler:

Bit of background info.

Under the future RvR system, most siege weapons are capable of being towed by horses and are requisitioned from areas on the map using supply (which is gained from holding BOs), a supply cap (which is linked to the number of BOs held), and contribution, which is a group/guild/individual resource which can be flexibly allocated and is used for purchasing heavy weapons and war materièl. The heavy weapons themselves, as well as some other additions, are intended to ensure that using a human wave attack against a lesser-manned defensive position will not succeed and that combined arms and flanking tactics must be used.

The intention is that the following counterplays and checks exist to artillery:

1) Siege cannons outrange artillery by about 150ft (400ft range vs 250ft). This check isn't working because the damage received by siege weapons is currently broken on live and because RoR for what I'll assume are optimization reasons has a draw distance of 300 feet, rather than the 400 feet that Age of Reckoning did. I'm experimenting with increasing this to 350 feet.

2) Spreading out. This isn't yet working because the underlying RvR system hasn't changed, so while the weapons are performing their role, which is to crush wave attacks, the incentive to wave hasn't been removed.

3) Flanking. Can't flank a keep too well.

4) Supply blocking. By holding BOs, you restrict the number of heavy weapons and other materièl that the enemy realm is willing to release to their troops, and increase that of your own. This in combination with heavy weapons was designed to solve the problems of worthless BOs and the lack of punishment dealt to a realm for forfeiting map control and retreating to their keep. In this case, the attacking realm supply blocks the keep, and the defending realm can field far fewer weapons than the attackers.

I've rectified the issues with Siege HP and incorrect damage resistance to the Cannon and Artillery damagetypes for the next update, so counter #1 should work, forcing the defenders to leave the keep if they wish to destroy the attacking cannons.

So, in short, this is a small part of something else. If it's too much for the time being, I'll comment out the damage scaling. It's no big issue.

It sounds weird as ****, but as per usual juries out and can't judge until we see it.

What do you mean by, The heavy weapons themselves, as well as some other additions, are intended to ensure that using a human wave attack against a lesser-manned defensive position will not succeed and that combined arms and flanking tactics must be used.

In short, we're going to implement the building of destructible defensive barricades that not only provide a physical block, but also some buff that protects against ranged attacks - the implementation of that and the exact mechanics are pending. Generally, we want players to be able to choose where they defend, and how.

Other changes regarding the nature of siege weapons are coming as well. Unique effects for different types of siege (Repeater bolt throwers versus organ guns), and hopefully we'll find a way to turn cannons from a single-target snipe attack to a line attack. The current implementation is a sort of compromise. Also missing is friendly-fire, which we've been tossing around as an idea. Make siege very useful, but very dangerous if used improperly and limited in the kinds of roles it can play.

EDIT: Before anyone chimes in with "Making defense even easier still" or some similar argument, we're also working on siege towers. And by working on it, I mean, "combing through every asset we have to try and find something we can make work as soon as possible, perhaps even before client control." Orcapults are a possibility, but on Order's side? Work in progress.