Patchnotes 09/10/16

[Azarael]

The marauder/wl root changes seem to be live? Just tried some on mine and it was break on damage

Unintentional, it's because I have to use REPLACE INTO these days instead of replacing the dev server ability tables outright.

[Specialpatrol]

Interesting changes lately. I'm gonna play the sceptic and raise a few questions that I can't help asking myself:

1: What is the reasoning behind removing Destroy Confidence?

I understand that Shammies feels somewhat haunted by this particular tactic. Is that the sole reason?

I've played the KotBS extensively both here and on live, and I've never really used DC much - except in duels or in a Shammie-heavy scenario. And I have a feeling that it's usage in general is highly limited and quite situational.

However, looking at the number of Enchantments on both sides, Destruction does have roughly 20% more than Order - with the Shaman being the number one holder of the most Enchantments of all classes. It is my clear understanding that DC supplied a possible (and singular) means to leveling that discrepancy - something which is now no longer an option. Did you consider such factors before this removal, and that it could possibly become an indirect buff to Destruction?


2: I must admit that the 100% increase in damage, with added range thrown in to boot, given to Maguses and Engineers seems a bit over the top.

Judging from last nights scenario charts, they now seem to be more or less on par with Bright Wizards/Sorcerers and Slayers/Choppas damage-wise - but without any of the volatile mechanics of these classes. The latter classes basically needs the support of a group to fully perform and deliver the damage they're capable of. Maguses and Engineers are way more independent classes, with way more survivability and crowd control. The trade-off is a lower damage. Or at least it used to be.

While I'm completely in agreement with tweaking/fixing certain classes to making them more valid options, this buff does strike me as a rather simplistic and possibly class-breaking solution. Did class relations and their respective mechanics (i.e. self-damaging vs non-damaging) play into your considerations before making these changes? And if so, how are they justified?

Basically I'm thinking, why roll a self-exploding, squishy Bright Wizard now, when I can get the same from a more sturdy and self-healing Engineer?

[Azarael]

Destroy Confidence was removed because its sole reason for existing was to check Shaman.

In case people don't understand what a check is, it's an element which negates another element because the mere knowledge that the first element can be deployed renders any willingness to use the second element moot.

Balance forum discussion was had on Destroy Confidence so I won't talk about it further here.

Engineers and Magi did not receive a 100% damage buff.

What they got was an increase in the effectiveness of their mechanic buffs (20% to 40%, so a relative increase of 16%) with added range, but their mechanic takes longer to max out.

The notes here refer to conditional nerfs on the Unshakable Focus morale if and only if you are using the new changeset, which were necessary because of outrageous burst at range with no possibility of detaunt.

[noisestorm]

Are you even aware that the Engi/Magus dmg output will _significantly_ drop while being pressured (forced to move)? Compare a Slayer or BW to that and see how they can still perfom with high dmg while moving around. Your power "spike" as Engi/Magus requires some setup beforehand, which can easily be destroyed by playing around the terrain or simply pressuring them

[Sigimund]

People are actually nuking my turret now. They are actually thinking about how the engi mechanic works and deploying strategies to counter it.

It is a strange and wonderful feeling.

[Vdova]

Are you even aware that the Engi/Magus dmg output will _significantly_ drop while being pressured (forced to move)? Compare a Slayer or BW to that and see how they can still perfom with high dmg while moving around. Your power "spike" as Engi/Magus requires some setup beforehand, which can easily be destroyed by playing around the terrain or simply pressuring them

Just increase detaunt range to 150ft and there is nothing to discuss about theyr new range buff ...

[peterthepan3]

2: I must admit that the 100% increase in damage, with added range thrown in to boot, given to Maguses and Engineers seems a bit over the top.

Judging from last nights scenario charts, they now seem to be more or less on par with Bright Wizards/Sorcerers and Slayers/Choppas damage-wise - but without any of the volatile mechanics of these classes. The latter classes basically needs the support of a group to fully perform and deliver the damage they're capable of. Maguses and Engineers are way more independent classes, with way more survivability and crowd control. The trade-off is a lower damage. Or at least it used to be.

While I'm completely in agreement with tweaking/fixing certain classes to making them more valid options, this buff does strike me as a rather simplistic and possibly class-breaking solution. Did class relations and their respective mechanics (i.e. self-damaging vs non-damaging) play into your considerations before making these changes? And if so, how are they justified?

Basically I'm thinking, why roll a self-exploding, squishy Bright Wizard now, when I can get the same from a more sturdy and self-healing Engineer?

1) It wasn't 100%
2) Scenario damage statistics don't mean anything. A magus still does considerably less burst DPS than a sorcerer and is not as viable a threat against decent opponents. That damage you see at the end of scenarios is mostly down to DOTs. I agree that in pug scenarios the classes are considerably more powerful, but that is to be expected with shortage of healers/tanks/lack of group play.
3) Because the Bright Wizard's mechanic is almost completely negated when in a group (engineer requires 16 seconds of setting up), has much better spike damage and a burst rotation that can be used every 5-6 seconds, and has much better AOE DPS.

[noisestorm]

Are you even aware that the Engi/Magus dmg output will _significantly_ drop while being pressured (forced to move)? Compare a Slayer or BW to that and see how they can still perfom with high dmg while moving around. Your power "spike" as Engi/Magus requires some setup beforehand, which can easily be destroyed by playing around the terrain or simply pressuring them

Just increase detaunt range to 150ft and there is nothing to discuss about theyr new range buff ...

I'd rather not, since this will affect not just those 2 classes, but literally every ranged Class.

[Specialpatrol]

Destroy Confidence was removed because its sole reason for existing was to check Shaman.

In case people don't understand what a check is, it's an element which negates another element because the mere knowledge that the first element can be deployed renders any willingness to use the second element moot.

Balance forum discussion was had on Destroy Confidence so I won't talk about it further here.

Engineers and Magi did not receive a 100% damage buff.

What they got was an increase in the effectiveness of their mechanic buffs (20% to 40%, so a relative increase of 16%) with added range, but their mechanic takes longer to max out.

The notes here refer to conditional nerfs on the Unshakable Focus morale if and only if you are using the new changeset, which were necessary because of outrageous burst at range with no possibility of detaunt.

Yeah, I saw that you opened a topic on Destroy Confidence a whole day ago. Not much time for a discussion, to be honest. But you answered my question - that you based the removal of said tactic on it's effect on a single class, without giving much consideration to the overall discrepancy in the numbers of Enchantments available to each side. I assume it's not considered a possible problem. So thanks for clarifying.

And raising a mechanic from a +20% buff to a +40% buff did sound like a doubling of said mechanic to me, hence the 100% remark. If that's not the case, then fair enough.

We'll just have to see how it plays out.

[Azarael]

The topic, if read, will clarify that I asked what the utility of Destroy Confidence was and I received the reply that it was almost never used and its utility was twofold: anti-Shaman and attacking a Destruction proc build, which has a stronger Order mirror to boot.