[Implementation Feedback] A suggestion for a Throwing Dagger/Snap Shot change.

[Akalukz]

Clarificantion please, if 4 would the snare stack 3x as well or would the skill be gutted? If it stacks what is the suggestion 10% per stack or what? Just trying to figure out the direction.

I would have suggested 3x stack, 10 or 15%.

Thanks for the clarification. I believe a change along the lines of option 4 would be optimal. It makes them the only mdps with a reliable snare both ranged (5-55") and mele (0-5'), yet forces them at mele range to choose between damage and cc. A well balanced approach. and could and probably should be considered in discussion the M1 Mara/WL thread unbreakable root. As one of the primary reasons to keep the root unbreakable is lack of cc on an mdps class vs rdps if I am not mistaken.

[Danielle]

While i really like #4 it comes with huge Issues, if you say you say it needs to be stacked for a proper slow. First of all, WH/We are supposed to be glass cannon DPS classes, having them use a low dmg spell for a slow is already meh. Having them use the same bad spell at least 2 or better 3 times to actually get an appropriate effect out of it is a huge dmg loss and also a ridiculous AP drain on a class that already is ap starved in the first place. Also you should not forget that all 3 stacks are gone with 1 single cleanse on top of it!

While i'd like have the spell function exactly like your normal Melee Slow (5/10 sec CD with fixed 40% slow), i'd rather have Snap Shot be a ranged slow with no condition and a 5-10 second CD instead. IF the decision comes down to change the stackable dots, then simply mirror it to become the kotbs slow, but please forget a stacking slow mechanic.

I prefer the above solution to a stacking Fervor/Envenomed Blade melee slow.

It might need some discussion whether Fervor/Envenomed Blade actually needs a buff in terms of internal class balance for another thread. The problem with stacking fervor in a group setting is that all 3 stacks get removed by a single cleanse, due to this, it's worthless to stack fervor against good opposition, because all the effects will get removed in a single GCD and lots of damage will be lost. Now if Fervor got rebalanced so that each application needed to be removed separately, then it might be worth considering a stacking fervor slow.

[Dabbart]

The argument for TD/SS to have no requirement and a CD makes the most sense imo. That could however be my internal WH bias speaking. Option 1, opening the shot to back or sides would be most in like with the classes themselves however. Opening the allowance for Sides works within the Theme of the attack and class while giving it the allowance for actual game mechanics.

A well timed spin could still negate the slow(which was intended to have that "flaw"), and the cast+animation allows that for some. If this will stop the perpetual Strafing to avoid everything I Love it(Even though I strafe 95% of the time as well...)

[Azarael]

That's a fair point, above. I've long rued the idea that Warhammer has, that you can strafe to dodge positional attacks like SS and TD with no penalty. Having a 10% or 20% side snare on TD/SS would help deal with that without impacting the game in situations where WH/WE are not present.

[geezereur]

I like the idea, but WE already have some kind of gap closers : OYK and the tactic Swift Pursuit which makes Fleet-Footed the best charge ingame in my opinion (1min still). Executions at 30feet (not all for WH indeed).

Why not get Throwing dagger/Snap Shot works from sides with Feinted Positionning ? I personnaly feel that a spammable snare at 65ft is very strong and should correspond to a sacrified CD (one could perma snare 2-3 people) ? If it works 100% time from the sides WH/WE will always snare people et range ?

It's true. The WE has the AoE KD and Fleet Footed. But this is something that has to go to both realms and not just one. or else I see it as a major imbalance.

EDIT: Furthering the idea of this ability linked to a tactic.
Since Fervor is up the Inquisition tree path, change (if possible) the tactic "Prolonged Confession" by adding the slow ability on that. Also since it is halfway up the tree, it requires some investment.

WE dont have AOE KD its AOE Damage but single target KD.

Spoiler:

I would vote for Nr 4.

Not a vote. Stick to advancing the discussion - Azarael

[drmordread]

I like the idea, but WE already have some kind of gap closers : OYK and the tactic Swift Pursuit which makes Fleet-Footed the best charge ingame in my opinion (1min still). Executions at 30feet (not all for WH indeed).

Why not get Throwing dagger/Snap Shot works from sides with Feinted Positionning ? I personnaly feel that a spammable snare at 65ft is very strong and should correspond to a sacrified CD (one could perma snare 2-3 people) ? If it works 100% time from the sides WH/WE will always snare people et range ?

It's true. The WE has the AoE KD and Fleet Footed. But this is something that has to go to both realms and not just one. or else I see it as a major imbalance.

EDIT: Furthering the idea of this ability linked to a tactic.
Since Fervor is up the Inquisition tree path, change (if possible) the tactic "Prolonged Confession" by adding the slow ability on that. Also since it is halfway up the tree, it requires some investment.

WE dont have AOE KD its AOE Damage but single target KD.

Spoiler:

I would vote for Nr 4.

Not a vote. Stick to advancing the discussion - Azarael

right, it is the damage that is aoe

[Kodama0]

Spoiler:

Looks good. Would help alot who like me got some higher ping

Not a vote - don't post unless advancing discussion - Azarael

[7rere7]

Spoiler:

Snare ability would make it even more difficult for a melee class to kill a WH after using Declare Anathema and Incognito ,(same for WE) .
Fever snare against a range class only and on a CD .
Option : increase the range of all Executions instead.

Second warning - Appeal to 1on1, proposing a solution that does not solve the problem - Azarael

[Redsun]

1 and even better 4 seems nice cause lets face it, the stealthers don't have a working snare atm.

However I disagree with the stacking in solution 4.
You cannot "afford" 2-3 gcds for a nearly worthless ability in terms of damage.

Just give to fervour/EB a normal 5sec /40% proper snare with 10sec cd. That would be the best...

[Tesq]

For a certain degree they need to exel to ranged snare because that's why they have that, so it would be better remove the positional (also due the fact that can be countered so easily) and also it dosen't feel correct give a melee snare to these classes.
Moreover with we/wh damages that will keep raise due to 100% armor ignore some classes got shooted down in few sec on live, so a melee snare-> after the kd -->after the opening from--> hide would be too much strong im my opinion. Even if mates help the target the windows that sometimes can be made could became to high also add a melee snare.

remain then the fact how handle the new snare if it goes that way, how many sec will it last and will it be spamable.