Why do you think that WH Online (Mythic) didn't was successfull?

[Jaycub]

the fact that you instantly die.
The fact that little skill is required.
The fact that its NOT really a group game..

>50% incoming dmg reduction from guard or detaunt
>30% outgoing dmg reduction from challenge
>morale versions of the above two at 75% incoming and 50% outgoing
>overpowered armor stacking
>6k unhealdebuffable heal from 2 pots
>the get out of jail free cards that are rd and cw
>cc immunities (lazy game design that rewards stupid play)
>healing output far surpasses dmg output, and stupid tactics like 25% increased incoming heals on crit being ""balanced"" and the like

And the absence of anything close to being as powerful as these mechanics for dealing damage

Instantly dying is idk my man... and this should should clear up why this is a group a game.

>no skill
It's low mechanics, and ceiling but you can find skill in other areas. But that of course isn't going to be exciting as high skill competitive games like csgo/sc/dota etc...

Spoiler:

Sorry for being autistic, I just really hate the TTK in scenario level play. Maybe it's better in warband vs warband with morale dumps etc...

[Arteker616]

1: early zones did look better than high end ones ,
2: terry bad progression system with alot of pointless questing .
3: alot of **** promised wich never happened ( character lvl evolution like orcs getting bigger mutations etc)
4: probably one of the worst cases of class balance game in mmo history wich put vanilla everquest to shame .
5: excesive focus in RVR, and not in long term gaming stuff like pve , crafting , customization or milestones for characters.
6: to many original inteded classes never saw the light , the game was cut down to much into the 3vs3 format.
7: no realy epic timeline or progression of a campaing . u supposed to be fighting during a chaos incursion time , it looks bland.
8: to many features from Trials of atlantis made it to warhammer online from maybe the highest hated and stupid expansions of any mmo of the age wich was criticed by gamers to no end and almost killed daoc .
9: poor ardvetising and micromanging of the game .blizzard did excell at it , and promoted the **** outta frozen throne , wich blow out war away .
10: mythic as gaming company was always a fiasco .
11: marc jacobs selling smoke .
12: GW for asking 24$ millons to renew ip.
13: alexander brigstone by trying to save ea inversion and launching Wrath of heroes .

[Darosh]

Too many things to list, but Arteker616 did a great job.
Aside from the things pointed out throughout this thread already:

Piss poor community management and absolutely incompetent (in the beginning), if not outright malicious (at the very end) developers.
The people in charge of WoH were absolute scumbags, there is no other way to put it.
Iirc they were the ones dealing the final blow, as they tried to cashgrab with this poor excuse of a game ~ all the while running the remains of WAR into the ground, or rather cannibalizing it.

[Arteker616]

Too many things to list, but Arteker616 did a great job.
Aside from the things pointed out throughout this thread already:

Piss poor community management and absolutely incompetent (in the beginning), if not outright malicious (at the very end) developers.
The people in charge of WoH were absolute scumbags, there is no other way to put it.
Iirc they were the ones dealing the final blow, as they tried to cashgrab with this poor excuse of a game ~ all the while running the remains of WAR into the ground, or rather cannibalizing it.

ACtualy They did a rather better job with Wrath than with war at all, the balance was better , weird synergys on characters allowed very weird and interesting combos , If i recall numbers from when wrath closed it allready had more players than war and was more profitable in ea agenda than warhammer online at all .

in any case the pvp in wrath was so much polished than online and while being a moba at launch it had some issues ( 6 wps spaming aoe heals dmg **** was insane hard to beat come to my mind) their maps where actualy better in general .

people demonize wrath but actualy it was a attemp to keep the franchise alive for ea since war was prety much a dead weight at the momment for them .

Remember something aswell companys ,like EA or THQ put insane ammounts of money buying ips , they needed to make the inversion profitable , EA payed 24 millons for fantasy ip but THQ did payed 70 for 40k and they had a 40 k mmo coming up wich got axed when it was about to launch the alpha because the company went bankrupt .

Now Mythic as videogame making studio was himself a hugue mess. people always scream daoc best pvp but dont remember the massive blunders the company did ,(daoc was launched without advertising and almost had to close up after 2 months because empty servers untill it got a very needed public attention in FOH forums ). the unstable servers falling each 4 hours at first months , and the fact they launched the game without a official web wich took 6 weeks after launch to appear .

[Mystry]

While it isn't the biggest reason for the lives downfall, my biggest gripe with live was class imbalance. When I played destro was heavily favored. SW was worthless compared to SH. Mara was ten times better than WL. DoK blew WP out of the water. Ect. Plus destro had access to Chosen which was by far the strongest tank in the game from day 1, while Order had to wait months for Knight to come out. The only match up in which order was on Sorc vs BW and Engineer vs Magus.

Some of the things which made the classes so heavily skewed are still in RoR today, like dual wielding being vastly superior to 2 handers, making dps DoK much stronger than dps WP.

Also for some reason Order was always super light on healers and tanks compared to Destro. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's still the case in RoR. I rarely ever see an actual shield using tank in T4 on Order in scenarios, and we usually have half or less of the healers the destro team has too. Don't know why that is.

[Darosh]

people demonize wrath but actualy it was a attemp to keep the franchise alive for ea since war was prety much a dead weight at the momment for them .

That is because people felt - and still feel - betrayed. Even though putting the effort into WAR would have been futile, it was still an option ~ by no means reasonable, but still an option. .-.

[Arteker616]

EA did what EA does, pumped and dumped, the people they had in charge had no experience or business being in that position and its carried on since, the appointment of Carrie Gouskos was beyond bewildering and she had no interest in WAR, refused to communicate with the community instead opting for tweeting xbox achievements.

Developers and creative design need to be removed from managerial positions in the gaming industry and take up an advisory role and the project to be run by a real project manager, if you are building an aircraft carrier you dont have the designers and engineers running the show.

u just pointed out what happened with Brad McQuaid,John Smedley and verant when SOE jumped over em . and Vanguard was a clear example .
And is Funny u mention Her, since the rumours later confirmed by muzyka about her promotion are kinda,, well gruesome

[Darosh]

u just pointed out what happened with Brad McQuaid,John Smedley and verant when SOE jumped over em . and Vanguard was a clear example .
And is Funny u mention Her, since the rumours later confirmed by muzyka about her promotion are kinda,, well gruesome

That piece of **** of a game ~ textbook example of how to waste money and completly destory one's reputation.

[saupreusse]

the fact that you instantly die.
The fact that little skill is required.
The fact that its NOT really a group game..

>50% incoming dmg reduction from guard or detaunt
>30% outgoing dmg reduction from challenge
>morale versions of the above two at 75% incoming and 50% outgoing
>overpowered armor stacking
>6k unhealdebuffable heal from 2 pots
>the get out of jail free cards that are rd and cw
>cc immunities (lazy game design that rewards stupid play)
>healing output far surpasses dmg output, and stupid tactics like 25% increased incoming heals on crit being ""balanced"" and the like

And the absence of anything close to being as powerful as these mechanics for dealing damage

Instantly dying is idk my man... and this should should clear up why this is a group a game.

>no skill
It's low mechanics, and ceiling but you can find skill in other areas. But that of course isn't going to be exciting as high skill competitive games like csgo/sc/dota etc...

Spoiler:

Sorry for being autistic, I just really hate the TTK in scenario level play. Maybe it's better in warband vs warband with morale dumps etc...

Your skill is mostly shown in how good you are building your char setup and knowing when to fight and when to run. Other than that i agree with what you said about the gameplay

[sullemunk]

Imo it was balance issue. A 3:rd faction would have balanced it up a bit