Da Toughest Bellow

[Nefarian78]

the toughest bellow exists to assist in morale bomb protection in a tank wall group comp that's designed for a warband keep defense situation.

And what is the issue there? that it's only barely viable in a specific scenario with a specific build with specific group of tanks.

Da Toughest need to be viable in everything, from Pug scs, to prem scs, to keep defenses etc. It's ok to have tools that do not cover everything but you can't have such an important BO skill restricted to such a specific occasion.

[roadkillrobin]

Da Toughest is clearly designed for PVE and it's really really good in a PVE enviroment aswell.
Against raid bosses it helps with the spike damage that occoures in boss fights on a fail block or parry.

When fighting longer PVE fights, solo, it also provides a source of health regeneration.

The question is, will more PVE elements be brought back to the game were this skill is relevant?

As for group Wounds buff on proc, I think it would be to good tbh. It would be one of the best passive abilties in the game.

[TenTonHammer]

Da Toughest is clearly designed for PVE and it's really really good in a PVE enviroment aswell.
Against raid bosses it helps with the spike damage that occoures in boss fights on a fail block or parry.

When fighting longer PVE fights, solo, it also provides a source of health regeneration.

The question is, will more PVE elements be brought back to the game were this skill is relevant?

As for group Wounds buff on proc, I think it would be to good tbh. It would be one of the best passive abilties in the game.

"PVE is an important factor that we consider when doing class balace towards"

Said no RoR dev ever


Class balance should never be done with pve in mind in a PvP focused game

[DokB]

Does SM phantom blade refresh itself? I know we're not supposed to appeal to class mirrors, but making Da Toughest refreshable during the 10 second buff might make it a hell of a lot more viable and keeps it strictly as a solo orientated bellow.

I can see it being really OP though in solo situations.

[TenTonHammer]

I can see it being really OP though in solo situations.

Yeah but we dont have to worry about solo balance

[footpatrol2]

What I stated earlier is an application on how you can use da toughest bellow in a RvR situation. Obviously it can be used in pve situations.

Do all the bellow's need to be a able to be used at all times in RvR? I don't know.
A lot of this stuff is situational. Stat steal does no good if your retreating. Da Greenest does well if your retreating.
We have 2 very good bellow's that can be useful depending if your pushing or retreating and obviously depending on group composition.

Does da toughest need to be re worked? I think the wounds increase should go back to its former 960 value but I'd be hesitant to change it after that without some solid testing on the 960 wounds increase. Remember this bellow was nerfed down by mythic.

I'm not opposed to the group wounds buff. But gut reaction is that it would be too powerful. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Bozzax]

Can you mods pls lock this redundant thread?

[Bozzax]

Does SM phantom blade refresh itself? I know we're not supposed to appeal to class mirrors, but making Da Toughest refreshable during the 10 second buff might make it a hell of a lot more viable and keeps it strictly as a solo orientated bellow.

I can see it being really OP though in solo situations.

PB obviously can trigger many times over 10s since it is "removed" by damage

Not sure if it can refresh if it was partially spent

[roadkillrobin]

Da Toughest is clearly designed for PVE and it's really really good in a PVE enviroment aswell.
Against raid bosses it helps with the spike damage that occoures in boss fights on a fail block or parry.

When fighting longer PVE fights, solo, it also provides a source of health regeneration.

The question is, will more PVE elements be brought back to the game were this skill is relevant?

As for group Wounds buff on proc, I think it would be to good tbh. It would be one of the best passive abilties in the game.

"PVE is an important factor that we consider when doing class balace towards"

Said no RoR dev ever


Class balance should never be done with pve in mind in a PvP focused game

I don't think the RoR devs here appricate being made strawman.
Majority of the content in this game is PVE. Even tho it's not really being played it's a huge part is and probobly will be part of the game in the future. The lair bosses implementation, restoring PQ's functionallity and adding PVE sets clearly hints that there is a PVE development intreast from the Devs. So PVE should be considered as a ballance point aswell.

[TenTonHammer]

No it's not


PvP is the central and primary focus of war; just becuase pve content "exists", dosnt mean it has absolutly any say in class balance

Never has the argument "muh pve" ever been brought up in the balance fourms, becuase it's a terrible argument and has about as much consideration as 1v1 balance

Nobody says "BOs channeled block is a great ability justified in it's 13 point cost becuase u can tank a billion mobs with it and the ap tactic making BO's amazing in pve"

Rather people say "Bo's channeled block is very limited in it's usefulness in rvr due to the movement speed reduction reducing ts overall viability and it's 13 point mastery cost is not justified"