Offtank dps : 2H Blackguard or Black Orc SnB?

[spikespiegel84]

Or maybe it is stupid that Chosen/KotBS buffs are so easy to use.

Sure thing, but SM/BO have a stat steal dynamic which profits the whole group without swapping friendly target. Reason why a st tank should have a significant pimping on his buffs to be appealable, of course according to my personal opinion.

[TenTonHammer]

Sure thing, but SM/BO have a stat steal dynamic which profits the whole group without swapping friendly target. Reason why a st tank should have a significant pimping on his buffs to be appealable, of course according to my personal opinion.

Yes and No

BO stats steal is random vs the consistent uptime buffs of chosen additionally there is no guarantee that some stats that you still still be useful for your party such as a melee focused part but you end up stealing Intelligence that no one can really use etc


At the end of the day their is no denying that CH and KOTBS over-perform respective to every other faction alternative, the only realy weakness in their kits was the terribad punt they have which is covered by that one tactic

No class should EVER be allowed to be 100% mandatory in parties for their respective arch type role, mara too has this flaw

[GodlessCrom]

At the same time, Mara is also like the only melee dps that is fun to play and yet viable in a group, so nerfing them just makes melee dps boring as **** and encourages further ranged spam.

I think IB and BG single target buffs could stand to be substantially buffed. Though to be fair, both of them also have some buffs that are unique/good already and dont need to be touched: i.e. Oathbound, which is i think both the best parry and best initiative buff (other than stat steal rng) in the game. But their straight stat buffs, other than maybe the Weapon Skill buff from Watch n' Learn and the willpower buff from Inspiring Attack/Brutal Smash, blow because they get overwritten by chosen aoe buff

[Orodret]

I always thought BG+Marauder are killer combo, couse 2 different armor debuffs + wound debuffs (havent played those many in years, so if i remember right).
If it's still the option, in 6men i'd say BG is better (mele train single target)
Chosen, BG, mara, choppa, Dok, Zealot.

[TenTonHammer]

At the same time, Mara is also like the only melee dps that is fun to play and yet viable in a group, so nerfing them just makes melee dps boring as **** and encourages further ranged spam.

TBT its a multi faced issue imho

Slayers and choppas are fundamentally flawed is design due to everything they have from class mechanics to tactics like dont wanna live for eva pushing them into ultra glass cannon territory while but this fragility dosnt as much translate into performance as mdps as its feels that maras and the like are a just as viable, effective and more importantly much safer option.

Additionally its frustrating to the core that inorder to work the need a pocket guard, healer and armor debuff to function, to have a class so obscenely reliant on group support does indeed ruin the fun and hence as you pointed out less appealing, not to mention all of this in an armor stacking meta where WS just dosnt feel like it translates that well

WE and WH had their entire kite thrown into ST gank dps and as such they just dont work well in groups that their really no better than SL/Chops

And this is an issues that wont get resolved, as Jaycub once pointed out, the ultra defensive sets of DF/WF in the past that enabled the defensive play, along with all those proc stuff and rampant crit+ stuff that made mdps and melee trains so potent will not be present here

At the same time you've got easy mode RDPS classes pumping out just as much if not more damage than mdps while possessing their own inherent kite tools and all the kite stuff available to every one like QE, RD etc etc

Quite a few of this problems i regreatable dont see ever being addressed

[GodlessCrom]

well mara and bg is weird because they have some weird synergy in some respects (ap drain from both) but are redundant in others (wounds and armor debuff dont stack). I suppose with a BG that has Choking Fury and soul killer, and a sav brute mara that has draining swipes, tainted claw tactic and exhausting swings slotted, you could make healers lives hell with 75% hdebuff and ap drain+ap regen malus. Probably pretty niche though, no idea if it works.

[Luuca]

Or maybe it is stupid that Chosen/KotBS buffs are so easy to use in RoR because there is no need to twist and the Auras do not dissipate like on Live.

FIFY

[TenTonHammer]

I always thought BG+Marauder are killer combo, couse 2 different armor debuffs + wound debuffs (havent played those many in years, so if i remember right).
If it's still the option, in 6men i'd say BG is better (mele train single target)
Chosen, BG, mara, choppa, Dok, Zealot.

No BG and mara was only a "killer combo" in the end days of rr100 bullshittery where SM, BO etc were considered garbage

Preconceptions we all bought here back in the early days of RoR, i remeber back in the day fourm talk with penril, Az and co all talking about buffing BO, SM 1.40 beta buffs and defensive leaps

Amazing how class perception and balance change without broken gear in the way.

Lastly party play is about ST focus and burst damage

BG and mara share may of the same debuffs and mara posses much higher values for those debuffs they will always over write BG's deuffs, this results in redundancy and as a result a large part of BG's kit loses its viablity

Thats why BO+ Mara is see as a much better alternative, the only real synergistic value between the former is chocking fury + draining swipe

[GodlessCrom]

I dunno, you just mashed your twister button once every 4 seconds or whatever it was, it wasnt that much better. Though at least they consumed a gcd then.

EDIT: I suppose technically BG and Mara could also help group crit stack with 20% crit bonus due to Crimson Death and Deeply Impaled but then you would have to A: run Deeply Impaled, and B: use impale more than once or twice.

[TenTonHammer]

Or maybe it is stupid that Chosen/KotBS buffs are so easy to use in RoR because there is no need to twist and the Auras do not dissipate like on Live.

FIFY

....And one addon later it wouldnt have mattered any way, twisting requires no real "mechanical skill" and was the equivalent of "busy work"