SH vs WL Self Heal Tactic

[bwdaWAR]

The various heal tactics are meant for pve grinding/leveling and don't need buffs. If anything WL one should be nerfed to match the others.

The others are useless for pve grinding as well.
Like "Bathing in Blood". A pitiful hot of 100-200hp every 3 sec, which doesn't even stack with itself. It scales very bad with character rank and even normal mobs deal way more damage unless you play a tank and waste your time by attacking one mob at a time. Remember, you use a valuable tactic slot for it.

That tactic can be useful in PvE, actually. Kills happen often enough and you can manage how many enemies you fight at a time, more or less. If you have a class/build without self-healing, it'll reduce the time you need to spend waiting quite a lot. Not everyone does PvE with a super-optimum AoEgrind build, instead of their favourite characters they already have...


I also don't really understand this thread. Apart from the "appeal to mirror" problem itself... the White Lion is NOT the Squig Herder's mirror. The SH's mirror is the Shadow Warrior. Just because the pets have a very small number of similar abilities/tactics doesn't mean the two are mirrors in any fashion when the vast majority of abilities/tactics are shared with the SW instead (and the WL's with the Marauder), not to mention their intended/ideal role/style in combat. The argument that "because WL has this, SH should have this" has no validity whatsoever. If you really want to compare a core healing tactic the SH has, compare it to the core healing tactic of the SW, Blood-Soaked War instead of a mastery tactic of the WL. That is the "mirror" you were referring to.

[Toldavf]

It might be wise to hold off on improving regen till melee squig is looked at and adjusted properly.

[Stinkyweed]

Was the Gas Squig PBAoE self heal ability fixed to include the herder in SquigArmor? ...or still just the squig?

I can test tonight if no one knows.

[Fey]

Yea careful, you might make big squig op.

[Koha]

The only useful regen tactics or abilities were for tanks (well choppa/slayer have something but it can be interrupted as it is not passive). Tanks can build off or def but should not reach the burst of a real Dps (?).

WL built defensive still have a lot of dps and burst through the pet. Tactic + hot ability for the pet is a fair regen. Butter and butter money, too much in small scale but of course not op in 6man balance standards.
Can’t say what would be the best fix. Changes need time for testing and tuning. Regen might not be the key.
All classes have to choose between defense and offense. High risk = high rewards => high damage on the pet while increased defenses on master is some kind of the opposite to my understanding.

[Foomy44]

I also don't really understand this thread. Apart from the "appeal to mirror" problem itself... the White Lion is NOT the Squig Herder's mirror. The SH's mirror is the Shadow Warrior.

I compared the 2 because they are the only 2 tanky MDPS pet classes in the game. I have both of them and a melee SW all above RR40 and melee SW and melee SH are extremely different in their group roles, strengths and playstyles. I hope you'll appreciate that I'm not comparing any of the things that were clearly designed to be different, not asking for melee SH to get WL burst, SW damage+crit chance, etc. However, trying to staying alive is something I think both guardian WL and melee SH are both designed to do so comparing their self heal tactics doesn't seem all that crazy to me, especially when you consider melee SH is probably the least played spec in the entire game and WL the most complained about, don't see how trying to bring some balance to that situation is so hard to understand. Both tactics take a tactic slot, is it really asking so much that 1 not be about 8x as effective as the other? There are plenty of tactics across different classes and archtypes that have similar power levels despite belong to wildly different classes, like how most straight stat increase tactics give you 160 of that stat.

And FTR like I said in my original post I am much more in favor of WL self heal tactic getting nerfed to not work when the cat is dead, bringing it more in line with every other self heal tactic in the game and also adding some possible counterplay to the WLs that just run away from melee classes everytime they take some damage to stay near full HP while their cat does most the work, one of the most broken risk vs reward situations in the game atm IMO and devs have already shown they aren't a fan of that playstyle at least a little by nerfing cat damage at range.

[catholicism198]

All classes have to choose between defense and offense. High risk = high rewards => high damage on the pet while increased defenses on master is some kind of the opposite to my understanding.

That is the one instance where you can have your cake and eat it too.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I also don't really understand this thread. Apart from the "appeal to mirror" problem itself... the White Lion is NOT the Squig Herder's mirror. The SH's mirror is the Shadow Warrior.

I compared the 2 because they are the only 2 tanky MDPS pet classes in the game. I have both of them and a melee SW all above RR40 and melee SW and melee SH are extremely different in their group roles, strengths and playstyles. I hope you'll appreciate that I'm not comparing any of the things that were clearly designed to be different, not asking for melee SH to get WL burst, SW damage+crit chance, etc. However, trying to staying alive is something I think both guardian WL and melee SH are both designed to do so comparing their self heal tactics doesn't seem all that crazy to me, especially when you consider melee SH is probably the least played spec in the entire game and WL the most complained about, don't see how trying to bring some balance to that situation is so hard to understand. Both tactics take a tactic slot, is it really asking so much that 1 not be about 8x as effective as the other? There are plenty of tactics across different classes and archtypes that have similar power levels despite belong to wildly different classes, like how most straight stat increase tactics give you 160 of that stat.

And FTR like I said in my original post I am much more in favor of WL self heal tactic getting nerfed to not work when the cat is dead, bringing it more in line with every other self heal tactic in the game and also adding some possible counterplay to the WLs that just run away from melee classes everytime they take some damage to stay near full HP while their cat does most the work, one of the most broken risk vs reward situations in the game atm IMO and devs have already shown they aren't a fan of that playstyle at least a little by nerfing cat damage at range.

[/spoiler]

They've already said multiple times that no changes are going to be made to Squig Armour because of the possibility of changes that might come with client control.

[roadkillrobin]

I also don't really understand this thread. Apart from the "appeal to mirror" problem itself... the White Lion is NOT the Squig Herder's mirror. The SH's mirror is the Shadow Warrior. Just because the pets have a very small number of similar abilities/tactics doesn't mean the two are mirrors in any fashion when the vast majority of abilities/tactics are shared with the SW instead (and the WL's with the Marauder), not to mention their intended/ideal role/style in combat. The argument that "because WL has this, SH should have this" has no validity whatsoever. If you really want to compare a core healing tactic the SH has, compare it to the core healing tactic of the SW, Blood-Soaked War instead of a mastery tactic of the WL. That is the "mirror" you were referring to.

SH/SW/WL/MA are mixed mirrors.
Archetypes, playstyle and toolkit are all over the place when it comes to these 4 classes. But SH and WL are still partly mirrors.

[Athergic]

Was the Gas Squig PBAoE self heal ability fixed to include the herder in SquigArmor? ...or still just the squig?

I can test tonight if no one knows.

It's still just the squig, I have it in bug tracker though.

[Athergic]

WL tactic Furious Mending = 240 hp every 5 seconds for both your and your cat at all times, so constant 480/5.

SH tactic Da Smell Don't Bother Me = 120 hp every 5 seconds only for the SH and only while your are in squig armor, so conditional 120/5.

Just...why? The powergap between these 2 tactics is absurd. The conditional part alone matters a lot more than anyone that doesn't play a melee squig might think, you lose over half your kit when you go squig armor and it gets locked out for 10 seconds anytime you leave. You are also kicked out of it automatically if you use your aoe knockback which you have to do pretty much anytime you are in danger with melee on you, so when you need it most you don't get any healing. Even if it was healing you 24/7 it's still 1/4 the healing of the WL tactic. If the logic for one being so much better is that it takes 1 mastery point you could easily switch the SH one into the mastery tree in place of the useless pet guard that I don't think anyone uses.

Any chance we can get these 2 tactics a bit closer in power level? Either by buffing the SH one, or better yet disabling WL's self healing when the cat is dead, making it conditional as well. IMO this would be an effective way of adding some counterplay to the insanity that is a melee dps class that can kite other melee dps classes to death from range while constantly healing to full hp. Dead cat meaning no healing would put a hamper in some of the super cheesy strategies some of these roaming WLs are so fond of.

I made a balance proposal for this a while back.

If the gas squigs spore cloud healed the battle squig like it should, I feel like it would really make the tactic feel better. every 10 seconds or so forgot sporeclouds cd you get an extra 160 or so health. which seems like a lack luster ammount, but paired with 120 p5. Tastes like chicken and spore cloud also get a small benefit from will power so if you are grouped with a black orc, or black gaurd some of your healing can benefit. BO's also have you got nuffin which works well with the tactic.

I'm thinking zero chance, but I would love to have 240 hp per 5 on my stabbin squig. It's only in the armor so it's not like range squiggies would be jumping at the opportunity to use a small boost like that.