[ORVR] Brainstorming/Suggestions

[Nidwin]

Try to reduce the lag that has appeared lately in the lakes. I do understand that lag is unavoidable when there are 200+ of us, both sides together, at a keep siege.
But something new is generating a massive lag that we didn't have before.

Yali,
what makes you think that we, RvRers, want to split up in different zones, except for the newly appeared nearly unplayable lag during keep sieges?

At the moment there's no strategic benefit to split up your forces over two or more zones.
So we need to wait till you folks implement forts and evaluate this new fort RvR feature.

I don't know where you're situated on the RvR-spectrum but there's something you have to understand Yali et al. about RvRers.

There will, normaly, always be a main fight somewhere RvR-wise. In RoR this means one main fight in one specific open zone. Tha's the place, only place, every core RvRer wants to be. I don't want to be in TM when the main, big/huge battle, is in Caledor. Never, not once, not sometimes, it's a big and always, will be, never. My place is in Caledor and nowhere else.
I'll go to TM, sure thing, if strategy demands it. But I'll make sure that every destro player knows that I'm making a sacrifice. I'm making a big gesture and we're going to take turns for this kind of crap.
RvRers do split when strategy requires it, we actually do and normaly take turns.
But remember that RvRers take 350 vs 275, main battle, over anything else, anyday, anytime.

On a side note, to help you Yali et al. evaluate the situation.
We, RvRers, tolerate 6-men boys band and sPvPers in our lakes. Make no mistake Yali, those are our lakes. We, RvRers, leave the lakes, your game dies.
As I just wrote, it's tolerance from our side to have them in our lakes. If you gave us the right to vote, we would vote for a system you can only queue up for sc's in some dark corner in IC/Aldorf and not while being in our lakes.

Good luck and keep the good stuff coming.

[Natherul]

This topic was spawned after a conversation between me and Yali yesterday.

The issue is as you all know the lag, the way we handle things technically cant support that many players in the same lake, at one point I measured almost 550 people in the same lake yesterday.

To add to this as some may be aware, the unlocking of new zones have its own issues and when nobody uses the zones that complexity that serves no purpose, if however we could get people to move to those zones problem would be solved and everyone would have a better time.

Keep in mind that we know of this issue and would be fools to not address it in some capacity for when forts and later features are introduced.

And the reason for why it takes less players now to reach the lag issues then say 2 years back is because we added new systems that takes horsepower as well (sor, aggro, aggrosend and so on).

[mogt]

ty natherul for your answer,you are right

[madrocks]

Suggestions for ORVR

There is many ways to split people. Taking empty zones is no fun and give not much reward, there is your obvious problem.
The solution is more loot and more reward even in an empty zone. NA timezone that is apparently deserted might like that.
Also there is a post that gives suggestions how to reduce lag. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20075
According to this post the lag is caused also by player kill quests, removing those and improving loot from a different source would be a worthwhile solution.
I personally have noticed that major lag can occur in 1vs1 warband situation. I am wondering if the improvements that Natherul mentioned are the only reason there.


Otherwise I have some suggestions to a general brain storming to orvr, even splitting people into pve.


1. Add more loot choices in the reward bags: double the cash reward, add high-end talisman crafting materials, purple jewlery and back items, all kind of emblems.
A golden loot bag needs way more choices then just a vanq/conq piece or this... insult of a cash amount


2. Half Keep Lord Hitpoints. Makes no sense to hit on a NPC Boss for 20 minutes that does not even give loot.


3. Add an automatic debuff to afk people inside the warzone. The debuff should reduce rr gain to 50%, the debuff should reduce rr gained for killing that player by 50% for 3 minutes. OR automaticly teleport afk people to the capital city.
Sitting afk on the BO should be penalized in some way. They are no help, only free bees for gankers and free lag generation.


4. Holding all BO and a Keep on 3 stars for 5 minutes locks the zone.
That is a solution to many things. A mob of 150+ players can't hold 4 BO. Small/Mid scale matters at this point.


5. Add a boss that spawns near ch22 camp after winning t2/t3/t4 of a racial campaign. Killing that Boss could give a buff to critical crafting chance or higher loor roll in PQ/ORVR.
Would be a good way to get ready for forts and make people like pve content in this game (that reduces numbers in orvr somehow naturally). It will make Realms react on sieges in different zones as it actually matters to hold or take them (attacking a different zone will not only be classified as bait).


6. Make ram carryable like a Darkelf ballista.
This ram lagging/despawning is such a major bummer. Literally pissing of 150+ people at once.


7. I hate to say it.. but make SC rewards more worth it to queue for it. 1k currency for an SC item is not even an option for most players, so they do orvr.


8. Add a guide section on the forum. Guides improve players. Improved players do better orvr and improve their settings. Better orvr equals to more fun. More fun = winning.


9. Add an option to make a Warband visible but not joinable unless invited.
Nothing to do with lag directly but it helps avoiding unecessary mobs. Kicking players is not a valid option to balance a warband. Unbalanced warbands are bad, they support the wrong idea of creating a 100 player mob to face the odds.


10. Keep all 3 racial zones open all the time. A split will eventually occur.



I might add more points later. I keep the right to edit my posts.

Last edit.

[Shooshpanzerer]

And the reason for why it takes less players now to reach the lag issues then say 2 years back is because we added new systems that takes horsepower as well (sor, aggro, aggrosend and so on).

Perhaps it is possible to let client take some of the load of new contribution system? With sending it to server only on keep take/zone lock/logout?

[Natherul]

And the reason for why it takes less players now to reach the lag issues then say 2 years back is because we added new systems that takes horsepower as well (sor, aggro, aggrosend and so on).

Perhaps it is possible to let client take some of the load of new contribution system? With sending it to server only on keep take/zone lock/logout?

1. Not in the sphere of possibility yet.
2. would open up to manipulation.

[Nidwin]

The issue is as you all know the lag, the way we handle things technically cant support that many players in the same lake, at one point I measured almost 550 people in the same lake yesterday.

550 in the same RvR lake or the entire zone?

To my understanding T4 pairings consist of one big zone made of the 5 fully linked "sub-zones". ( 3 sub-zones with the double keeps + 2 sub-zones with the forts)

Is there a difference between T2/T3/T4 with these kind of numbers?

[oaliaen]

maybe upgrading the machine to reduce lag and 100+ ppl keep fighting at the same zone...ppl whine about "pve" in rvr. So, i dont think sieging empty keeps gonna fix the problem. =(

[Natherul]

The issue is as you all know the lag, the way we handle things technically cant support that many players in the same lake, at one point I measured almost 550 people in the same lake yesterday.

550 in the same RvR lake or the entire zone?

To my understanding T4 pairings consist of one big zone made of the 5 fully linked "sub-zones". ( 3 sub-zones with the double keeps + 2 sub-zones with the forts)

Is there a difference between T2/T3/T4 with these kind of numbers?

That was zone, but I think it was a sub t4 zone I cannot remember however so dont quote me on that.

And pop concentrate on one zone regardless of what zone it is (T4 or not). And I measured in zone so not only lake, but the calculations are for zones so does not matter if in the lake or not (and I imagine that the number of people outside of the lake is relatively small)

maybe upgrading the machine to reduce lag and 100+ ppl keep fighting at the same zone...ppl whine about "pve" in rvr. So, i dont think sieging empty keeps gonna fix the problem. =(

point is not to fight in empty zones, but to have more actives zones. And there is no issue with 100 people in a zone, issue starts with 250+ in a zone.
Might I add that with these bigger numbers clients will lag to **** as well if at a keep, and thats not due to server or something that we can do much about.

[Aurandilaz]

A big portion of players play the game to get FIGHTS, not run around capturing keeps for the sake of somehow having fun watching while 4 guys operate and 40 slack behind etc.
Hell, it will get worse when you establish Cities as end goals of campaigns, people will ride the gravy train, surrender zones completely and hope for fast Fort pushes so cities can be farmed more - atm it's still pretty good with both sides actively seeking a large fight. That's what warbands exist for, and what's the real unique thing about this game, largescale realm versus realm action in huge fights - not capturing empty undefended keeps in side zones.

The lag was "ok" last year, you had 200v200 fights and it was still pretty playable, with occasional keep siege of +300 people in small crowded area making it then actually laggy. These days even 100v100 in open area or even far smaller numbers in keeps can cause extreme lags.

What changes from last year that might have contributed heavily to lag;
-personal loot rolls, saving them etc (instead of normal PQ system with top contris, now everyone in zone is building and stashing their personal roll gains over time, has to add extra stress)
-BO system, instead of classic lock flag for a while system, you now have extra mechanics for holding flag via players, portals from warcamp, "contested" state BO where you cannot port... instead of classic BO spawns resources which you yourself need to escort, now no one runs those supply caravans, which was another way to split people in zones instead of getting everyone to hug same flag.
-SoR addon, not sure if it adds much lag, but another system has to contribute some extra stress.
-Bugged UI unitframes... not sure why you broke them, could be another issue of maps trying to properly track players and then feed info to player UI, and something really going wrong.
-Zone border/pve border lag issue, buffs reapplying, bolsters recalculating, auras vanishing... enough people travelling at zone borders which forces all those extra calculations increases at least personal lag, maybe also for others.
-Mobs fighting mobs, why? Maybe one random PvE mob fighting another mob doesn't contribute much issues, but when you have enough many mobs bashing other mobs in enough many zones, surely it will contribute some extra stress to server performance?


People don't do RvR for the sake of "capturing zones", it's all about PvP. If you had higher player numbers, maybe you could get 300v300 in one zone, 200v200 in another, but with current more limited numbers, and lack of organized guilds, people either stick to one main zone of action where you get best and biggest fights, or you go PvEdoor empty keeps for pathetic small renown ticks. And really cannot understand the lure of taking an empty undefended keep myself, but some persons seem to enjoy it, as you occasionally see some pug warbands vanish in hopes of getting that 1k tick for taking an undefended keep in some random side zone.