Broken WB Balance

[Karast]

I don't think the zealot 13 pointer is an issue by its own, but im also not stating dps rp 13 pointer is in any form desirable.

I don't think mara drain is an issue by its own, i also wouldn't mind seeing it mirrored.
For the purpose of rvr, or more like blobfighting it barely matters. I'm playin mara currently when I'm not on bo.
Mara tactics you run for wiping blobs are:
Brute force, feeding on fear, arm pen, 50% crit dmg.
For 24 v 24 we would go mdrain, and the even more gamechanging ap drain from left tree.

The most urgent issue for rvr balance or why destro has a bigger powerplay in blob warfare are sorcs, there cd shortener tactic, and the interaction with cd reduce.
We played with our order wb vs destro in rvr with that state of balance, with a non min mixed setup and the pug blobs still melt with a bw train.
Thats mostly caused by the secret formula:
Bomb on one spot, stick compact, the bw heavy setup and wam leading.

After that shatter got mirrored, huge buff.
Both in conjunction seemed very unnecessary (the bug, its 6 months or more now on the tracker).

The game has balancewise for rvr very drastic changes behind it.

Mostly:
Pointless mirroring
Pointless buffing
Pointless or wrong aimed nerfing (ff as an example)
Removing stuff without implementing the solution
Changing morales (cementing bw and sorc even more)
Stating not all classes need to be wb material
Ununifying skilltrees (15 pointers, tactics which argumwnt skillable abilties, moving m4s to core)

And so on.

There is a lot of pointless stuff in the patchnotes and there is a lot of open stuff on the bugtracker.

Why we not play order has other reasons to be fair.
Numbers good enough to provide fights on the home realm, new blood, old blood changed classes, order wb fairly unbalanced setup wise (rerolls required for deepth, maybe next 2x exp)

Ofc balance is also an issue, but mainly because every class which isnt kotbs, sm, bw, wp or rp is already questionable if not trash and most changes cemented bw even more as the order king of bombing.

So all in all, I partially agree with your core statement (balance is off), but as you can see, my points are not the 13 pointer nor the drain, rather non fixed bugs and a lack of an overarching concept.

Thanks for the thought out reply!

Also I don't want to see the punt mirrored. I think any immunity ignoring CC is broken.

But to add a bit of snark. Your secret is having a 50 player front line with NRM at your back half the night!

[Akilinus]

Was it not CNTK and BT who started the hand holding? Before that premade warbands used to go alone

[ragafury]

On order its called event and grand alliance, they dont use the z word over there, everything is heroic, ya know. <:-D <:-D

I also give my additional 2cent.

Whole thread seems rather pointless and wasted breath. I don't see a single order wb left remaining in the game where you could balance around.

Refusal of streamlining and metapicking is too high.

So, it is what it is.

[Dammy095]

few months ago it was CNTK+BT+TUP+Erihon vs NRM and Lutz and that was fine, now you guys complain, there still more order players than destro, almost all of them are pugs tho

also, how do you check/compare balance when its 3 premade guilds vs pugs?

[abodam]

Run team empire WB, cant drain morale when you are dead.

[Karast]

On order its called event and grand alliance, they dont use the z word over there, everything is heroic, ya know. <:-D <:-D

I also give my additional 2cent.

Whole thread seems rather pointless and wasted breath. I don't see a single order wb left remaining in the game where you could balance around.

Refusal of streamlining and metapicking is too high.

So, it is what it is.

You do realize that us and BT are a WB together most of the time and BT don't even run on Mondays anymore. There is not enough interest left order side for full AoE WB's anymore. No one wants them since they see them as a waste of time, hence the balance issues, hence this thread.

You also know for a fact that we spend most of the night separate Raga. You only have to look at your own videos for proof.

We switched to a comp we could work with, because AoE doesn't work against zealot punt and morale drain. You've seen it work, but it is not an AoE WB and it doesn't work against the big blobs.

[Karast]

Was it not CNTK and BT who started the hand holding? Before that premade warbands used to go alone

No comment on the main points?

[Karast]

few months ago it was CNTK+BT+TUP+Erihon vs NRM and Lutz and that was fine, now you guys complain, there still more order players than destro, almost all of them are pugs tho

also, how do you check/compare balance when its 3 premade guilds vs pugs?

No comment on the main points?

[Akilinus]

Was it not CNTK and BT who started the hand holding? Before that premade warbands used to go alone

No comment on the main points?

Deep n Dry made it work why cant you?
Even if order is given more tools I doubt they would use them

[Karast]

Was it not CNTK and BT who started the hand holding? Before that premade warbands used to go alone

No comment on the main points?

Deep n Dry made it work why cant you?
Even if order is given more tools I doubt they would use them

No comment on the main points?