[Class Growth] Notice some lower level toons doing better then others

[saiho]

Killboard kills are based on who does the MOST damage to the target. So tagging wbs and doing no meaningful damage will not farm you kills. What they are doing is following WBs and using ST to focus one at a time. The WBs fighting will spread their damage out using AOE and so will do less percent damage than the SW sniping each enemy one at a time from afar.

Simply just not true, I was literally top of weekly killboard for like 3 days with 400 kills as a level 34 SW just running around tagging people with my meaningless dots

It's still true. You can do a thousand killingblows as far as actual last hit goes, but get no actual kills on the tables. The DoTs are anything but meaningless, and your statement already supports this statement. Keep in mind if 10 people from different parties hit a target, you don't need to do thousands of damage in the short window it takes for people to die to have done the most damage. Often more than enough to get in a couple of those 800 damage crits from BHA/SS alone. Toss a 1200-1400 SFA into the mix and yeah, you will get leaderboard kills from something that to you, seems like nothing, but in reality is a pretty hefty chunk of damage. Let alone if we start looking at 3-4k festers and 2,5k FtWs. Honestly the entire kit just deals absurd amounts of damage at the moment compared to what the class conceptually was back in the day.

It's just utterly frustrating to see how overtuned it is, as someone who played the class for years. It does so much damage that the entire identity of the class is gone. It's just a BW with no telegraphing, no counterplay and none of the downsides now.

I WISH I was hitting 800 crits at CR34 when I was topping kill leaderboards, mine were closer to 400.

I do agree that guerilla tactics FTW Scout does a ton of damage, but everyone stating that SW's are on Killboards bc theyre overtuned is NOT the case. They simply have EASE of damage output that other classes, ones that are even stronger than SW (WL) Cant output in the same way.

they get there because theyre uncontested, not because they are directly overpowered.

[what63]

Simply just not true, I was literally top of weekly killboard for like 3 days with 400 kills as a level 34 SW just running around tagging people with my meaningless dots

It's still true. You can do a thousand killingblows as far as actual last hit goes, but get no actual kills on the tables. The DoTs are anything but meaningless, and your statement already supports this statement. Keep in mind if 10 people from different parties hit a target, you don't need to do thousands of damage in the short window it takes for people to die to have done the most damage. Often more than enough to get in a couple of those 800 damage crits from BHA/SS alone. Toss a 1200-1400 SFA into the mix and yeah, you will get leaderboard kills from something that to you, seems like nothing, but in reality is a pretty hefty chunk of damage. Let alone if we start looking at 3-4k festers and 2,5k FtWs. Honestly the entire kit just deals absurd amounts of damage at the moment compared to what the class conceptually was back in the day.

It's just utterly frustrating to see how overtuned it is, as someone who played the class for years. It does so much damage that the entire identity of the class is gone. It's just a BW with no telegraphing, no counterplay and none of the downsides now.

I WISH I was hitting 800 crits at CR34 when I was topping kill leaderboards, mine were closer to 400.

I do agree that guerilla tactics FTW Scout does a ton of damage, but everyone stating that SW's are on Killboards bc theyre overtuned is NOT the case. They simply have EASE of damage output that other classes, ones that are even stronger than SW (WL) Cant output in the same way.

they get there because theyre uncontested, not because they are directly overpowered.

I mean that ease of application is exactly why they are in fact directly overpowered. WL is not what this should be compared to though, but even in this comparison the SW comes off very, very well, being ranged vs melee. The comparison is engi and BW. SW on account of their CC, healdebuff and slipperiness was perfect as a supporting DPS for melee DPS or either of the former two. Now it's even more mobile, retains the utility, but also does damage that pretty much puts them on par with a melee DPS. Without the need for setup time or the downsides that come with the burst being backloaded, which you have to deal with on BW/engi.

The ease of application, utility, survivability and everything that makes up the class simply do not add up to this level of damage, both frontloaded burst and sustained, being in any way balanced. The current SW is akin to taking all the best bits of the old ranged DPS dynamics and putting them on a single class. The result is a hybrid monstrosity that bursts like the best of them while bringing all the best utilities for itself. As noted, the SW has cannibalized the entire ranged ST DPS space. There is zero reason to run it as an enabler for the other two. It simply enables itself and can be stacked.

Just to repeat again; SW did not need higher ability damages along with a 25% crit damage increaser. It's waaaaaaaaaaay too much, especially after being multiplied by VoN. Guerilla Tactics is absurdly broken after every other mobility tool was nerfed, not that SW should ever have had a movementspeed increaser.

[saiho]

I mean that ease of application is exactly why they are in fact directly overpowered. WL is not what this should be compared to though, but even in this comparison the SW comes off very, very well, being ranged vs melee. The comparison is engi and BW. SW on account of their CC, healdebuff and slipperiness was perfect as a supporting DPS for melee DPS or either of the former two. Now it's even more mobile, retains the utility, but also does damage that pretty much puts them on par with a melee DPS. Without the need for setup time or the downsides that come with the burst being backloaded, which you have to deal with on BW/engi.

The ease of application, utility, survivability and everything that makes up the class simply do not add up to this level of damage, both frontloaded burst and sustained, being in any way balanced. The current SW is akin to taking all the best bits of the old ranged DPS dynamics and putting them on a single class. The result is a hybrid monstrosity that bursts like the best of them while bringing all the best utilities for itself. As noted, the SW has cannibalized the entire ranged ST DPS space. There is zero reason to run it as an enabler for the other two. It simply enables itself and can be stacked.

Just to repeat again; SW did not need higher ability damages along with a 25% crit damage increaser. It's waaaaaaaaaaay too much, especially after being multiplied by VoN. Guerilla Tactics is absurdly broken after every other mobility tool was nerfed, not that SW should ever have had a movementspeed increaser.

Magus can just completely shut down any SW From playing the game in a WB or Party setting, by outranging them, staggers etc

SW Is only really "Overpowered" in the way you describe it In very small scale fights, and its not those fights that put them on the killboard like people cry about regarding SW

[what63]

I mean that ease of application is exactly why they are in fact directly overpowered. WL is not what this should be compared to though, but even in this comparison the SW comes off very, very well, being ranged vs melee. The comparison is engi and BW. SW on account of their CC, healdebuff and slipperiness was perfect as a supporting DPS for melee DPS or either of the former two. Now it's even more mobile, retains the utility, but also does damage that pretty much puts them on par with a melee DPS. Without the need for setup time or the downsides that come with the burst being backloaded, which you have to deal with on BW/engi.

The ease of application, utility, survivability and everything that makes up the class simply do not add up to this level of damage, both frontloaded burst and sustained, being in any way balanced. The current SW is akin to taking all the best bits of the old ranged DPS dynamics and putting them on a single class. The result is a hybrid monstrosity that bursts like the best of them while bringing all the best utilities for itself. As noted, the SW has cannibalized the entire ranged ST DPS space. There is zero reason to run it as an enabler for the other two. It simply enables itself and can be stacked.

Just to repeat again; SW did not need higher ability damages along with a 25% crit damage increaser. It's waaaaaaaaaaay too much, especially after being multiplied by VoN. Guerilla Tactics is absurdly broken after every other mobility tool was nerfed, not that SW should ever have had a movementspeed increaser.

Magus can just completely shut down any SW From playing the game in a WB or Party setting, by outranging them, staggers etc

SW Is only really "Overpowered" in the way you describe it In very small scale fights, and its not those fights that put them on the killboard like people cry about regarding SW

(Won't bother fixing the quote chain)

Magus has one ability that outranges SW. The range on that is essentially just.... there? Nothing else lines up to it. Scouts equivalent hits infinitely harder with marginally less range. Magus has stagger, SW has a KD. Magus has a melee snare, SW has an actually impactful ranged snare (Yes yes, the magus channel, who cares?). SW has a movementspeed tactic, magus gets to reset his class mechanic to 0 if he takes more than three steps. But most importantly, ST magus is ALL burst, there is no actual sustained damage. SW gets to pick and choose between Magus level+ frontloaded burst and more than good enough sustained damage. Magus has aboslutely nothing to bring to this conversation beyond also being a frontloaded burster when things come to ST damage.

What puts them on the leaderboard are exactly those non-primetime fights. The small to medium scale that goes on for the MAJORITY of the day. The only time they somewhat fall off is the three hours of prime time where people jump into four warband zergs to kill unorganized plebs.

I know very much why the people on the leaderboard are there, as I have over the last few weeks found a significant amount of time to invest into playing the exact hours where most of those kills are farmed, playing both sides on different toons. It's not a question of AoE BHAs or lucky hits from anything else. It's sheer "floor is lava", except in this case it's "order is lava" because of bizarro level crits out of nowhere. Be in range, get dead, unless wearing absolute overkill levels of gear. It's at the point where it's outright fustrating to even play order, because no matter what you do, if there are friendlies closeby, every target you set up any rotation on is gonna go from 80% to 0% in the blink of an eye from any one of the billion SWs just tossing a fester>FtW on anything they see and getting the contri.