The Destro Attitude

[Twyxx]

This post is interesting as someone who only occasionally plays Destro, so I don't have the full perspective.

[Razid1987]

I agree with almost everything, Luuca.

Although I would blame the current 1 zone ORvR system just as much as Destro's lazy attitude. I haven't been able to do my own part sadly, since I've been busy leveling with friends.

Also, it seems that you haven't even considered that xrealmers is a big part of this problem. I believe that when the Rank and RR cap gets increased enough, combined with T3, a nice Orvr system as well as loot dropping from keeps, things are gonna even themselves out, somewhat. Crossrealmers won't have time to keep up on both factions. They will have to choose. This will however ONLY work, if you introduce all these changes rapidly. If there's a long time inbetween they're just gonna catch up gratually.

One last point: I disagree with your statement about AAO. I do think it would help the underdog faction, and encourage people to fight back, instead of just giving up before hand. I don't see AAO as enforcing 6-manning, but rather giving an outnumbered destro zerg a fighting chance. Just the kind of boost to keep moral up, and get back into the fight again and again. Those same players are the ones standing afk in the wc atm, doing nothing. Waiting for "something" to change.

But there does seem to be a problem with arrogance in the ranks of destro. The epeen is through the roof. A lessen in being humble wouldn't hurt one bit.

[perche]

and aao

[Azarael]

I've one thing to ask:

Could the sentiment in this thread be simplified to "Because one side's zerg is winning all the time, we must now open another zone to allow each realm to PvDoor while dodging the other realm"? And if not, why not?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sick of hearing about the ORvR situation and if it comes to you saying outright "We don't want to fight, we want to trade keeps" that's absolutely fine, because keep trading and zerg PvP are equally boring. Just let's be clear about what you want.

[Azuzu]

I've one thing to ask:

Could the sentiment in this thread be simplified to "Because one side's zerg is winning all the time, we must now open another zone to allow each realm to PvDoor while dodging the other realm"? And if not, why not?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sick of hearing about the ORvR situation and if it comes to you saying outright "We don't want to fight, we want to trade keeps" that's absolutely fine, because keep trading and zerg PvP are equally boring. Just let's be clear about what you want.

Right now PvDoor is the best renown in oRvR.

If my 6 man kills 100 people (which is a lot) at an average of 50 renown a kill (which is a lot), we get 5000 renown. The side taking keeps gets, each tick of the BO 800 renown x 4 and a keep take of 1200, you get 4400 renown. The zerg is able to wreck up zone takes a lot quicker then a group is able to kill 100 people.



AAO ^_^ I think that's the next logical step to try and balance out oRvR. If one side always has 400% AAO, the factions will adjust themselves.

You have to make fighting players and not door worth while. AAO is a great way to do this. A flat accross the board renown increase from kills won't work, because instead of taking keeps the zergs will just camp the opposite factions warcamp. AAO, especially if it increase medal drop chance, makes keep defending much more worthwhile.

[Razid1987]

I've one thing to ask:

Could the sentiment in this thread be simplified to "Because one side's zerg is winning all the time, we must now open another zone to allow each realm to PvDoor while dodging the other realm"? And if not, why not?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sick of hearing about the ORvR situation and if it comes to you saying outright "We don't want to fight, we want to trade keeps" that's absolutely fine, because keep trading and zerg PvP are equally boring. Just let's be clear about what you want.

You're probably refering to me, but I don't really get why since we had this discussion a few weeks back, and I already told you why. Granted, you don't agree, but I still stand by it.

Ever since you implemented the new system, zerging have been a huge problem. I hope we can at least agree on that. I get that you are tired of listening to negative feedback about it, but I honestly don't see this working. You are running a server where you can't control xrealmers, yet you force the uneven factions to face eachother head on. But with xrealming being a thing, a huge part of the players who lose are always gonna give up and take the easier route, relog and win. As long as xrealming is a problem, a 1-zone system is always gonna end with 1 top dog, making the other faction log off. I don't do this myself, but that's sadly the attitude of many players on this server. ANYTHING is better than that. At least with a 2 or 3 zone system, you can do Orvr no matter what faction you are on, instead of being left in a 1:10 ratio fight that's impossible to win.

[Azarael]

I'm not referring to you with this - the sentiment seems to be thread-wide.

The system is flawed, and this is obvious. I'm not going to stand here and defend it, because there's no point - time after time we've seen zerging and snowballing, and this is a product of the system. What I'm opposed to is doing more work to turn the system back into keep trading.

What we need is a system that is implementable, with multiple win conditions, which can still be definitely won by a side when the sides are actually balanced - unlike the current system. It should also break up zergs. We could use a fix for crossrealm ****, but that's not likely to come (and the knowledge of this is a core reason as to why I'm bored and exasperated by the RvR issue and am really focusing on abilities rather than this.)

Right now the agenda is to implement AAO at some point, then look at greater modifications. I've no hope for anything solid, though - because of both crossrealming and an inability to enforce numerical balance in the lakes.

[Azuzu]

I've no hope for anything solid, though - precisely because of crossrealming.

Hopefully AAO will cause cross-realming to have a positive effect. Those who cross-realm to be the underdog faction and thus balancing the sides.

[OldPlayer]

Attitude is a huge factor. Yesterday when we were trying to secure the BOs to attack the keep and Order started "burning" a BO across the map.

Destro decided to stay at the BO to get their "tick" and as a result missed out on recapping the BO by about 45 seconds (after numerous Destro people basically pleaded in chat that they needed to sacrifice their one tick to kill some Order and get a different tick).

I never played Order to the extent of pugging in ORvR, so I cannot comment on the attitude there, but on Destro side pugging has always had a "childlike" mentality with no vision anything greater than themselves.

It is the same on Order side.
Probably simple rational thinking: "I stay here, I get my one tick for sure, while I watch youtube. Why should I bother moving half a zone, missing this one certain sure tick and risking I'll be dead (I suffer and provide renown/loot for the other side!) due to superelite destro premade roaming for the same amount of renown from the tick on the other side of the map. What timers? We'll get keep anyway. Now or later...
... It's not Destro evening yet. And when it comes, I just relog Destro, lol."

[Penril]

You dont need to defend the system Aza. It was mostly based on MY suggestions (and some others). As you already said, you should not take any responsibility for it OR be blamed for its failures.

Go on guys, flame me. I trolled you so hard haha j/k.

I think it would be a good idea to at least open up the three zones until a new system is implemented.