Changelog 23rd May, 2016

[Telen]

with the ability to guard a player in a game you need a way of countering it and in this case you need to rely on crits and +crit dmg tactics since there arent that many abilities to improve your damage output drastically for a short amount of time. currently the only way to burst down people reliably in a 6v6 situation is to KD+punt away both tanks and isolate the dps or heal and hope for some lucky crits to score a kill. this game doesnt have any sort of hard cc that can be stacked so you have an extremely small window of kill oppurtunity. by removing crit and crit dmg the combat literally gets a snoozefest and will kill any 6mans in open rvr since they cant bring anyone in a zerg down.

crit in a game where healers and guard tanks are present is vital to the balance.

Guard cuts dmg in half. Detaunt cuts dmg in half. Both heal debuffs cut healing in half. Thats the interplay.
Of course when youre missing one of these elements you have a problem.

[Jackiee]

Crits as a concept is not necessarily the issue, I dont think it was suggested that crits altogether be removed. You are right about having small windows to create kill threat and how that requires burst which is primarily derived from critting. However the issue is primarily in how crit gear tends to scale better for some classes than others meaning the same upgrade for 2 classes causes a disparity in strength and that with crit/burst classes/specs already ruling supreme. Its possible to still have burst classes burst while having gear give an unbiased/linear power stat.

[peterthepan3]

TB just makes classes like WP/DOK even more incredibly hard to kill, and neuters classes like WL that are very reliant on frontloaded burst.

[thullonse]

with the ability to guard a player in a game you need a way of countering it and in this case you need to rely on crits and +crit dmg tactics since there arent that many abilities to improve your damage output drastically for a short amount of time. currently the only way to burst down people reliably in a 6v6 situation is to KD+punt away both tanks and isolate the dps or heal and hope for some lucky crits to score a kill. this game doesnt have any sort of hard cc that can be stacked so you have an extremely small window of kill oppurtunity. by removing crit and crit dmg the combat literally gets a snoozefest and will kill any 6mans in open rvr since they cant bring anyone in a zerg down.

crit in a game where healers and guard tanks are present is vital to the balance.

Guard cuts dmg in half. Heal debuffs cut healing in half. Thats the interplay.

heal debuff is cleansable, guard is not. the only way to counter guard is KD+punt on both tanks. also most HD have a cd of 10sec while KD+punt combo is 30sec because of immunity timers.

[Bozzax]

Crit stacking in general needs to be stopped. The fair ways to do that are:

Yep this is where they failed with LOTD and 1.4.

IMO In any % based system like WAR/ROR you really need to design from the end gear down. Not add and add until it fails (like it did several times).

Adding extra talisman slots* for example in jewels or making % modifiers**,absorbs, hp-regen stackable is really somthing you need to actively avoid.

* messes indirectly with % migration (armor)
** crits, AA-haste, avoidance/bypass, penetration but also to some extent % migration (armor resists)

Personally I think you should enforce strict design item guidelines especially for % bonuses on seperate pieces but also on X pcs. Including talisman slots and armor / resists

NOTE: There actually was at least one ring with a talisman slot on live and a few white with armor but they were very low level and only caused twink problems in T1, T2, T3.

[Telen]

heal debuff is cleansable, guard is not. the only way to counter guard is KD+punt on both tanks. also most HD have a cd of 10sec while KD+punt combo is 30sec because of immunity timers.

imo thats more an issue with gcleanse spam and that the game isnt designed around 6v6 (not saying it shouldnt be)

[Azarael]

Those of you who are making a defense of critical damage are missing the point, so let me make it clear. Using critical hit rate bonuses instead of just scaling damage out has the following flaws:

- Classes with mechanics which affect critical damage (BW/Sorc) unfairly gain
- Classes with tactics which scale critical damage unfairly gain
- Tactics which listen for critical hits become stronger and stronger as the prevalence of critical hits increases

I'd also like to add something that should be common sense, which is:

- Taken from the perspective of damage output ONLY, without critical damage modifiers or tactics which deal damage on crit taken into account, the closer critical hit rate comes to 100%, the closer it becomes to simply adding +50% damage output.

100% critical hit rate IS +50% damage output. The "spike/burst" argument diminishes further and further as critical hit rate increases, because the high hits become more and more normal.

[Skavok]

Not sure what server you played on Torq but I stopped playing when they raised the level cap to 100. DDOW had server first world boss and had it on farm ever since. Our entire guild was in world boss equipment long before there was ever such a thing as level 100

And you continue to mention the annihilator system but you leave out the fact that there was a working contribution system and the ability to masterloot taking out several layers of rng. Where you seem to be adding several layers beyond anything mythic ever had.

[bloodi]

So whats the complaint? OP or unobtainable? Mythics "contribution system" still had you at the mercy of RNG entirely and also didnt exist in the capacity of bonus roll modifiers at launch.

Well, Mythic learned their lesson and introduced tokens for this very reason, so you didnt have to rely on RNG entirely to obtain things like that.

- Taken from the perspective of damage output ONLY, without critical damage modifiers or tactics which deal damage on crit taken into account, the closer critical hit rate comes to 100%, the closer it becomes to simply adding +50% damage output.

100% critical hit rate IS +50% damage output. The "spike/burst" argument diminishes further and further as critical hit rate increases, because the high hits become more and more normal.

Yeah, and?

I follow what you say but we came back to the very same thing as always, do you think that classes that are very near almost always critting are not balanced around that fact?

[Skavok]

Not sure what server you played on Torq but I stopped playing when they raised the level cap to 100. DDOW had server first world boss and had it on farm ever since. Our entire guild was in world boss equipment long before there was ever such a thing as level 100

And you continue to mention the annihilator system but you leave out the fact that there was a working contribution system and the ability to masterloot taking out several layers of rng. Where you seem to be adding several layers beyond anything mythic ever had.

So whats the complaint? OP or unobtainable? Mythics "contribution system" still had you at the mercy of RNG entirely and also didnt exist in the capacity of bonus roll modifiers at launch.

I didnt say anything about anything being OP or not so dont push that **** on me. Cant we have a normal conversation with out getting so defensive? You did the same thing to me when i asked about the Chosen boots.

Im not out to get you Torq. I think the Set is pretty damn good and would just like the opportunity to actually have a chance at EARNING them. You cant earn something thats hidden behind a 110% luck based system