Renown cap lift

[Azarael]

I'm still opposed to RR100, but it's on game design grounds. Power inflation to that extent lifts the game off its original base and changes a whole load of conditions, wrecking the balance. A major concern I have with all of this is that vertical progression + minmaxing and rectifying balance issues will be mutually exclusive. It would be hard enough to balance Warhammer just with the abilities, tactics and morales to consider. Pocket items, use items, renown abilities, massive amounts of customisation and possible stat spreads / builds? Hell. Power creep on top of that, changing the base game state? It's not going to happen. It's simply not going to happen.

If people are truly serious about rectifying balance issues in the game, and that being a major contributing factor in the game's death, we will have to compromise on the means of power creep, the maximum power gap that can exist at one time, items and the level of minmaxing that can exist.

[Badger12]

I'm staggered buy the need of instant gratification that alot of these ppl feel...if some one puts in more time and effort then someone else why shouldn't they be rewarded for that?
"I don't like grindy games", then go buy a lvl 100 in WoW and have a nice day. This game was designed to REWARD ppl for there EFFORT and contributions to the "WAR" effort. I finally got into my sov on live after like a year or so and I felt accomplished..and when I came out to the field I felt REWARDED for my efforts, with not only good looks but the power to do so compared to some one who played for 3 days. ( if I have been contributing to the betterment of my faction on the server VS some Xrealmer who is only there cause "that side is winning" THEN I am entitled to something.....moping the floor with him.)
As for my feelings on the skill vs no life.....take a Wb with no skill even 2...vs 1 Wb of skilled ppl and see who hits sov 1st..RR is based off strat and kills and tactics used to achieve victory, if your not smart enough to use a trash zerg as a feeding trough then that's your own fault. flame on jonny....flame on.

[Euan]

My suggestions:

-Be nicer to your playerbase (feels like they're taken for granted)
-Set up soloqueue matchmaking 6v6 2/2/2
-continue on renown after 80 offering cosmetic items + titles
-have events rewarding cosmetic items
-monthly newsletter to connect with player base letting them know what's going on
-support the 6v6 premades somehow with items or titles
-possibly add a 1v1 instance ( it doens't have to be balanced)

I don't know. I quit when RR100 ranks were added becaues I wasn't about to grind to 100. I'm wondering why you guys were opposed to RR100 or was that to appeal to the mass? It serves your purpose in prolonging the game. I'm not sure if you're able to make new items or not.

I rather have ppl talking like they actually do, instead of this 'Oh, we have to be nice to everyone, even if they flame us'-nonsense.

They just added cosmetic gear, for the bday-event. So they can and will do that.

New gear already was added. So they can and will do that as well, if they think it does fit.

Why reward 6v6 premades? They actually have the reward of winning most of their stuff, getting endgame faster.

Monthly newsletter? If they would do that, ppl would bug them all the time to press on certain things, or try to make them focus something else first (a.k.a. What?!?!? You're not working on PQs RIGHT NOW!?!??!?? DOOOOO ITTTTTTT JERKSSSSS!!! incoming).

Offering more cosmetic items will need time. Time they currently are investing in more important things (in their free time).

Matchmaking was set to 2/2/2. But the system will fail if someone doesn't take the popup. Ppl complained ques took too long. So... what now?

I mean you don't have to be nice but I see situations right now that seems like players are taken for granted.

Cool. If they can make cosmetic gear that's great.

Reward 6v6 will keep them interested and possibly promote competitive play. It might spread to other players. It'll help keep groups around if they're trying hard to one up each other. Especially if rewards are involved. I understand that 6 man already get the most benefits, trust me I was the first to point that out on these forums.

Monthly newsletter to connect with your players. If people "bug" them, that's good. It'll give them insight on what players want. That's always good to have on mind.

I understand offering cosmetics will need time.

Was the matching for 2/2/2 a 6v6?

[Euan]

I'm staggered buy the need of instant gratification that alot of these ppl feel...if some one puts in more time and effort then someone else why shouldn't they be rewarded for that?
"I don't like grindy games", then go buy a lvl 100 in WoW and have a nice day. This game was designed to REWARD ppl for there EFFORT and contributions to the "WAR" effort. I finally got into my sov on live after like a year or so and I felt accomplished..and when I came out to the field I felt REWARDED for my efforts, with not only good looks but the power to do so compared to some one who played for 3 days. ( if I have been contributing to the betterment of my faction on the server VS some Xrealmer who is only there cause "that side is winning" THEN I am entitled to something.....moping the floor with him.)
As for my feelings on the skill vs no life.....take a Wb with no skill even 2...vs 1 Wb of skilled ppl and see who hits sov 1st..RR is based off strat and kills and tactics used to achieve victory, if your not smart enough to use a trash zerg as a feeding trough then that's your own fault. flame on jonny....flame on.

You understand it takes a long time for someone to get to 80 gaining normal renown? It takes a lot of hours. Slash 75% of the gain and now you're talking a crazy amount of time. That's what my question was about. There's no instant gratification in either situation. It's literally grind on top of grind. There will always be those that will invest more time and be rewarded sooner. That's perfectly fine.

[Badger12]

I'm staggered buy the need of instant gratification that alot of these ppl feel...if some one puts in more time and effort then someone else why shouldn't they be rewarded for that?
"I don't like grindy games", then go buy a lvl 100 in WoW and have a nice day. This game was designed to REWARD ppl for there EFFORT and contributions to the "WAR" effort. I finally got into my sov on live after like a year or so and I felt accomplished..and when I came out to the field I felt REWARDED for my efforts, with not only good looks but the power to do so compared to some one who played for 3 days. ( if I have been contributing to the betterment of my faction on the server VS some Xrealmer who is only there cause "that side is winning" THEN I am entitled to something.....moping the floor with him.)
As for my feelings on the skill vs no life.....take a Wb with no skill even 2...vs 1 Wb of skilled ppl and see who hits sov 1st..RR is based off strat and kills and tactics used to achieve victory, if your not smart enough to use a trash zerg as a feeding trough then that's your own fault. flame on jonny....flame on.

You understand it takes a long time for someone to get to 80 gaining normal renown? It takes a lot of hours. Slash 75% of the gain and now you're talking a crazy amount of time. That's what my question was about. There's no instant gratification in either situation. It's literally grind on top of grind. There will always be those that will invest more time and be rewarded sooner. That's perfectly fine.

I wasn't particularly talking about you in this statement, but this game was ment to have a grind to it...grinding promoted activity, effort, support of your realm and guild.
I meant Christ, you can hit 40 in like 2 weeks without trying..this means endgame participation in 2 weeks how is that grindy? well u have to grind RVR to 80. why? has any intel been released as to new gear sets being released? even at 100% the grind to 80 took months....were at 25%...even if they add sov next week, we won't be seeing it for a long time...untill then just sit back, have fun playing with your friends and if u get RRs all the better..its a game, why get so bent on a possibility of something happening in a year or so. find some ppl you enjoy playing the game with (and a class u like) and you don't really feel the grind....your to busy enjoying the company of good ppl and having fun

[Luicetarro]

I mean you don't have to be nice but I see situations right now that seems like players are taken for granted.

Cool. If they can make cosmetic gear that's great.

Reward 6v6 will keep them interested and possibly promote competitive play. It might spread to other players. It'll help keep groups around if they're trying hard to one up each other. Especially if rewards are involved. I understand that 6 man already get the most benefits, trust me I was the first to point that out on these forums.

Monthly newsletter to connect with your players. If people "bug" them, that's good. It'll give them insight on what players want. That's always good to have on mind.

I understand offering cosmetics will need time.

Was the matching for 2/2/2 a 6v6?

I don't think they are ungrateful for player, but as well they don't want to deal with those 'U SUX! Give ME back OLD WAR BUT BETTER!! I deserve it, since I'M HERE!!!'-kind of player.
They state, like a broken record, that some things aren't permanent, that they are working on things, even gave a spoiler about it. They take ideas serious, IF they are worth it.
They are working on the server in their free time, don't get money for that (not they were allowed to take it though). Even if this istn't a reason to act allmighty and go all out on 'Hail me, since I'm doing this for you!!!'-mode, please cut them some slag and at least try to understand, that they might/are sick of ppl flaming them and STILL play here, even if they state how awfull it is here.

Guess one could try to create some kind of system, that could grant titles for Kills I guess, but can't tell if it is possible due to the way they can work on the client. Keep in mind, they are limited atm, since they don't have full access to everything the client can offer. So you can drop ideas, but if they are possible - right now, with their skills in programming - let them judge that, as hardly anyone of us can tell, what can and can't be done.

Monthly newsletter will need manpower as well. They would have to talk on a regular basis about what to actually put in there as well. That will force them to either communicate via asynchron ways, or force them to meet up (and I can't tell if they are mostly in similar timezones, work roughly at the same times, if they have the duty of keeping a family entertained, etc.).
Sharing stuff to work on is by far easier. You have some time? Hop on, work on it, hop off. Profit.
As of bugging them: Check the top of my post. Ideas are welcome, flaming is not, as is pressing them all the time. It will save them time.
I agree and love to stay informed, but as the situation is, right now, I fully can understand a newsletter is a thing that might be worth less, than the time spend on it.

The system for Scens was supposed to create parties with 2 dps, 2 tanks and 2 healer, based on stats (so Dps-AM/Shaman won't get in as full healer, for example).
I can't tell, if that system is still in, or was removed, since I lost track of the discussion, but ppl complained, the ques take too long (since most player are dps, face it).
And since I was in some Scens with no healer at all on either side (so creating balance), I suspect, it still is in.
But the system WILL fail, if ppl don't take the pop, since it won't reevaluate the classes that actually took them and create a balance out of that.

[Mizhas]

Well this thread turned out pretty much as I expected it to.

A number of you are complaining about power gaps. I'm going to do something I swore I would never do here and go into full elitist mode.

You're playing an MMO. These games are specifically designed to appeal to the following types of players:

- Socialites
- Explorers (lore fanatics, etc)
- Achievers (vertical progression, collection of gear, etc)
- People who can't hack it in pure skill-based games and deliberately choose games which allow them to have an advantage over other players because they played the game longer.

Please note that this is not an exclusive list - exceptions exist. The makeup of any individual player may also be a mix of all these types. However, these are the main bases for any MMO.

MMOs in general sacrifice heavily depth of mechanics and individual skill, partly because their system of having so many abilities does not mesh well with a fully skill-based control for them, partly because they support so many players at one time that the processing power required to implement intensive mechanics like FPS-style play exceeds the limit of any server that could be economically acquired, and partly because it is in the intent of the design to limit the skillcap in order to create mass appeal.

I'm sure at this point people are going to raise the 6v6 guilds and how they reliably crush opposition. True. I didn't say that there's no skill in the game and that sufficiently organized groups of players cannot reliably exert dominance over others. If you're determined enough, you can carve out a niche in most games. But the fact that 6v6ers are actively denigrated by some segments of the community and told that the game isn't about them (which is true, it isn't) just highlights that the intent of this game was never to appeal to skill.

In short, if you are going to make the argument that vertical progression is bullshit and that MMOs create a crappy situation in which players with more time played have an advantage over players with less time played which is not accomplished by natural improvement in their skill over time? I'd agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, this is an MMO, and it relies upon those bullshit factors to operate. As Jaycub pointed out - the gameplay is not strong enough to stand on its own. If that's not to your taste, and I'll readily admit that it isn't to mine... then there are plenty of other genres around that are based on raw skill and nothing else.

It isn't a bad thing that there are people to whom this kind of design appeals. Play something like StarCraft or Street Fighter and you can get dominated by players that are a little better than you. I won't talk down to anyone who doesn't think that that is fun, or to whom that doesn't appeal. But I think it's very important to be honest about what exactly this and other games like it are, and why they were made in the way that they were. You either make your game to appeal to skilled players first and foremost, or you make it to appeal to a broader base, making sacrifices against the skilled players in order to preserve your main base. Unless you're a development God and have such good matchmaking and design that you can make your game easy to pick up and play yet filled with depth at the top levels - and separate out the skilled players from the casual players using your matchmaking - you have to choose.

[Dresden]

25% seems good, a lot of people will be happy to see purple numbers again.

Pardon my ignorance, what does 'purple numbers' mean?

[Vayra]

renown points. They're purple.

[seara]

I would do the following Azarael.

Very major:
- Stop all patches that is not bugfixes, do a feature lock to fix current content. Fix server uptime, RVR bugs, login bugs or atleast address them.
- Save remaining quests/PQs/forts/cities for a last update.

Major:
- Put the fun abilities from 1.0 back in. Examples being removal of knockdown/stagger/snare restrictions, Revert class mirroring. find the fun cores for classes, keep 1.0 balancing, but generally only allow 1 good spec per class, buffing weak classes in the process.
- slow down renown gain permanently.

Minor stuff:
- Add back some of the removed gear from the game(live and ror) remove rebalancing on gear that dosent need it.
- Make twinking more visible.
- Remove disrupt buff, replace it with other defensive buffs from back in time if needed.
- Have a zero cheating and multiboxing policy.
- Fix all live events and have them work.
- I would suggest all scenarios to all tiers, another suggestion would be to simply only queue by playersize. Win conditions can always be changed.
- Old fort/city sizes.
- Block anything but party/warband/guild/alliance chatter if near heavy combat.
- Supply a smaller warhammer online download, could use the method for updating the code/art/graphics-preset/UI.

Perform a character wipe once all the above have been done.