[Discussion/Feedback] The Armor Project

[Daknallbomb]

No magus engi should be effektiv dmg dealer! For what use a tanky cc Maschine in a 6on6 setup When alrdy Tanks do These Job! That makes no sense and you dont have a slot for 3 tanky cc Toons in a six man

That was never there roll. They were stationary defensive casters they have a tree to make them sorc lite. So I applaud those tgat build those tanky magus/ engi they are filling thier role as designed. If they are that tanky they do **** for damage.

Jep and that is the problem! Noone need that in no setup because there will ever be a better Pick for it!
And off topic at Start engi magus where mobile sustained dps caster where there where disigned!

[K13R]

No magus engi should be effektiv dmg dealer! For what use a tanky cc Maschine in a 6on6 setup When alrdy Tanks do These Job! That makes no sense and you dont have a slot for 3 tanky cc Toons in a six man

That was never there roll. They were stationary defensive casters they have a tree to make them sorc lite. So I applaud those tgat build those tanky magus/ engi they are filling thier role as designed. If they are that tanky they do **** for damage.

Jep and that is the problem! Noone need that in no setup because there will ever be a better Pick for it!
And off topic at Start engi magus where mobile sustained dps caster where there where disigned!

[K13R]

No magus engi should be effektiv dmg dealer! For what use a tanky cc Maschine in a 6on6 setup When alrdy Tanks do These Job! That makes no sense and you dont have a slot for 3 tanky cc Toons in a six man

That was never there roll. They were stationary defensive casters they have a tree to make them sorc lite. So I applaud those tgat build those tanky magus/ engi they are filling thier role as designed. If they are that tanky they do **** for damage.

Jep and that is the problem! Noone need that in no setup because there will ever be a better Pick for it!
And off topic at Start engi magus where mobile sustained dps caster where there where disigned!

That cause people think 6 v 6 is meta it isnt never was game wasnt designed for it. It was brought in from daoc camelot 8 v 8 which also wasnt meta. Your playing a meta that the game wasnt designed for. Guess what in a 6 v 6 meta classes are left out aways well be. If you want to play your uber elite 6 v 6 meta you are going to have to come to terms not all classes will be viable. If you wish to play the game as designed as a warband meta with racial synergies then youll see a much better game.

(I have watch marc design 3 games now been neta for 2 and in alpha on his third i have a pretty good idea how he designs also he really open about it also so that helps)

And they were never moblie dps straight from the god mouth to your ears

You'll see that in RvR engineers go to a flag or an objective, drop a turret, a keg, some landmines, and then wait for players - 'come get some'. What the engineer gives up in mobility across the map, they gain back in being by far the most effective location-specific damage dealers. They really shine in RvR siege. The fortress is there, you know, it's not going anywhere. You can help to lay down suppressing fire. The engineer is extremely effective in that role. It's tempting to say he's overpowered because he has options that no other class will have, but he's extremely specific in the role he can take on."

[Daknallbomb]

Oh no in a warband you need no engi magus too! For tanky cc! Mayb one for pull bot But all other slots can be better used

[Aurandilaz]

That was never there roll. They were stationary defensive casters they have a tree to make them sorc lite. So I applaud those tgat build those tanky magus/ engi they are filling thier role as designed. If they are that tanky they do **** for damage.

Jep and that is the problem! Noone need that in no setup because there will ever be a better Pick for it!
And off topic at Start engi magus where mobile sustained dps caster where there where disigned!

That cause people think 6 v 6 is meta it isnt never was game wasnt designed for it. It was brought in from daoc camelot 8 v 8 which also wasnt meta. Your playing a meta that the game wasnt designed for. Guess what in a 6 v 6 meta classes are left out aways well be. If you want to play your uber elite 6 v 6 meta you are going to have to come to terms not all classes will be viable. If you wish to play the game as designed as a warband meta with racial synergies then youll see a much better game.

(I have watch marc design 3 games now been neta for 2 and in alpha on his third i have a pretty good idea how he designs also he really open about it also so that helps)

Are you claiming that the game isn't balanced around the remaining 5-10 guilds that do 6man activities, and instead might be balanced around the activities that the rest of us plebs do? Absolutely shocking...

[th3gatekeeper]

Jep and that is the problem! Noone need that in no setup because there will ever be a better Pick for it!
And off topic at Start engi magus where mobile sustained dps caster where there where disigned!

That cause people think 6 v 6 is meta it isnt never was game wasnt designed for it. It was brought in from daoc camelot 8 v 8 which also wasnt meta. Your playing a meta that the game wasnt designed for. Guess what in a 6 v 6 meta classes are left out aways well be. If you want to play your uber elite 6 v 6 meta you are going to have to come to terms not all classes will be viable. If you wish to play the game as designed as a warband meta with racial synergies then youll see a much better game.

(I have watch marc design 3 games now been neta for 2 and in alpha on his third i have a pretty good idea how he designs also he really open about it also so that helps)

Are you claiming that the game isn't balanced around the remaining 5-10 guilds that do 6man activities, and instead might be balanced around the activities that the rest of us plebs do? Absolutely shocking...

I do think some level of this is healthy but also can be VERY toxic... There are people that prefer one of two various types of PVP and unfortunately the DEVs (and RVR players) are very "contempt" towards SCs. Saying its a "mini game" etc....

Some people PREFER this type of game... Heck, even ESO (massive 'RVR' focus for years) is doing a "battlegrounds" and is trying to expand its audience...

So its cool and all to focus primarily on 1 gametype, but just realize... "mass scale battles" dont appeal to all types of players. Many players like smaller battles like SCs and play PRIMARILY for that...

Its cool to talk about warband vs warband balance, but just be aware... RVR and warbands are largely a "hard touch" system. So focusing a game on just 1 type of PVP and 1 TYPE of "social system" is alienating a LARGE player base of PVPers....

Ideally, you would have both.

"Soft touch" systems and "hard touch" systems (soft touch, think 1 guy logs in for 30 minutes solo, Hard touch, think "scheduled raid tims) as well as SCs and RVR.

There really should be both types of "touch systems" in BOTH types of gameplay: RVR/SCs

Why did I say all this an derail my own thread? Frankly... IDK... But this is an attitude I see far too often here on ROR and its ONE of the reasons (IMO) the game is barely treading water.... Many players and DEVs alienate other types of players and treat them with contempt if "scheduled RVR times with your guild" isnt your cup of tea....

[Daknallbomb]

even fight is the only way to Balance something via 6on6 12on12 24on24 and so on
the only Chance is at even numbers and that starts at 6on6 !
Make changes because of orvr makes no sense because ist 168 vs 60 or something !
you have to pick a Point where you can start balancing and that should be proper grp Play and that start at 6vs 6

[th3gatekeeper]

even fight is the only way to Balance something via 6on6 12on12 24on24 and so on
the only Chance is at even numbers and that starts at 6on6 !
Make changes because of orvr makes no sense because ist 168 vs 60 or something !
you have to pick a Point where you can start balancing and that should be proper grp Play and that start at 6vs 6

Yeah, this is 1 "camp" and why some people prefer SCs.

"numbers" are never the issue, it comes down to skill/class makeup where as RVR (from what I have played) is MUCH more about "who has more numbers"

I agree 100%. Its not much fun when 1 side has 400% AAO and gets crushed... I wouldnt call that RVR...

Unfortunately I think the current zone lock/loot system only encourages "fast" zone locks. Because I dont see any "incentive" to try and "duke it out" in a RVR lake for 4 hours.... Rather... I see A LOT of incentive to "let the other side win fast" while also trying to "get good contribution" ALL to get a chance at the zone lock rewards. This (IMO) is largely why you see what you see... People trade BOs until 1 side has AAO and they let the other side kill the lord (while they cap BOs for contribution) then let them lock the zone - so everyone gets chance for bags.

- cant remove "bags" for losers or nobody will post a defense.
- Cant remove "bags" for winners because they need a reason to rally people TO lock the zone.

Its a real catch 22 situation... But this is what I would start to think about if I were the DEVs.

I can tell you right now ONE of the deterrants for people wanting to "duke it out" for 4 hours is that they dont always have 4 hours to play and if you dont "lock" the zone, you largely dont get many rewards.... So that mightbe worth thinking about.

[roadkillrobin]

6v6 doesn't play the same as 24v24 or RVRvsRVR so impossible to ballance this game for multtiple formats when all skills, morales and tactic is open to get all the time. Something thats broken in small scale is prefectly fine and might even be underpeforming in large scale. And thats completly true for this game. Proc meta completly fine in large scale, destroyed everyone in small scale and after changes completly useless in large scale and made several tactics and warband builds useless. So thats what you get when you trying to ballance for multiple formats at the same timme. It doesn't work with this system. So sadly one format most come first in prioroty when doing ballance.

[Daknallbomb]

6v6 doesn't play the same as 24v24 or RVRvsRVR so impossible to ballance this game for multtiple formats when all skills, morales and tactic is open to get all the time. Something thats broken in small scale is prefectly fine and might even be underpeforming in large scale. And thats completly true for this game. Proc meta completly fine in large scale, destroyed everyone in small scale and after changes completly useless in large scale and made several tactics and warband builds useless. So thats what you get when you trying to ballance for multiple formats at the same timme. It doesn't work with this system. So sadly one format most come first in prioroty when doing ballance.

Hmm thats true