Heaven's Blade

[Fallenkezef]

How about turning it into a buff? Just switch thr effect.

Instead if debuffing enemy's resistance, buff the SM's by the same amount?

[live4treasure]

How about turning it into a buff? Just switch thr effect.

Instead if debuffing enemy's resistance, buff the SM's by the same amount?

Issue is that the effect was offensive, so the new effect should also be offensive, or class identity suffers

[CytheX]

If the problem ,like grulo said is that stack with corp/ele for bw/engie just make heavens blade only spirit , and maybe to compensate the loss increase a bit the value of debuff?

[Warfare80]

AoE moraledrain a la marauder would grant SMs free spots in any organised WB.
I have cried about this before

(Lost internet while i posted earlier and hoping im not doubbleposting)

[peterthepan3]

If the problem ,like grulo said is that stack with corp/ele for bw/engie just make heavens blade only spirit , and maybe to compensate the loss increase a bit the value of debuff?

Problem is it makes bw more powerful in rvr. It isn't op in small scale. I agree with what you said. Let's not neuter the small scale utility/synergies it allows to prosper, please.

[Penril]

That was kinda the idea at first, but since i received confirmation that there is indeed tri-stack for spirit, a dev tested it and apparently spirit resist can be debuffed by 800+.

I think we might be approaching this the wrong way. I have a couple questions:

1) What is the average Spirit resist a player usually has?
2) What debuff value sounds reasonable to you and why? 400? 600? 900?

Maybe once we agree on those things we can come up with a better proposal.

[peterthepan3]

Depends on pug (beastlord400-500) or group with kotbs/chosen (800-1200+). Around which ought we balance ?

Actual debuff values of HB and WoH are fine, bearing in mind you have to spec moderately high in Hoeth and usually give up a KD.

Naturally tristacking is a HUGE problem.

[Axerker]

Imo, HB was a debuff and should stay so. So, here are some that could be fun :
a) proc an effect like BG's Crimson Death.
b) Reduce chance to defend rate of all enemy by 10-15% for Xs
c) reduce chance to crit for all enemy by 5-10% (mirror of Kneecapper but AoE)
d) reduce moral gain of all enemy by x%.
e) reduce the damage output of all enemy by 10%.
f) increase the damage taken by all enemy by 5-10% (like signal flare)


It just need to be a very strong replacement. Otherwise the class is destroyed pretty much.

a. I'd consider this a bit unfair, since Crimson Death is at the top of the tree. Perhaps a lesser value, like 5%.
b. 15% is way too high, in my opinion. 10% should be the maximum, 5% would be more fair if this is AoE.
c. This one is pretty fair.
d. This one is okay, but I think it wouldn't get used as much, so makes it less viable.
e. This one is a definite no-no, I think. Considering the Chosen's 10% damage debuff was just removed (and I believe only single target), this would not be fair and especially broken if AoE. Single target is still busted, since Chosen had this in their damage tree and it was still removed. Heaven's Blade is accessible to all SMs, so it should not be comparable in strength to a tree skill, in my opinion. Maybe 5% single target only, but at that point there isn't much usage. 10% would be fine with a 10 second duration and internal cooldown, so they can't just tab through targets and debuff them.
f. Same as previous. Single target, this would be fine. AoE would be way too strong for WB vs WB where you have 5-10+ people attacking the same target. It adds too much killing power to a Tank, when they already deal enough damage as it is to be a moderate threat. Tank's should not be threatening, they should be jammers/nuisances (dealing more damage is a form of jamming, but making the entire WB deal more damage to a ST (or worse, all enemies) is too much of a strong point and would be even stronger than Spirit Resistance Debuff stacking.

Overall, I think reducing crit% by 10% would be fair. All in all this skill should not be AoE, though. Only Single Target, or the numbers would need to be reduced pretty heavily.

[peterthepan3]

Single target f proposal would be cool.

[CytheX]

Id say the same value of wrath of hoet of the same spec/level