Cost of +25 talis

[wonshot]

Good for you. You have an established account, so I have great news for you. You don't have to do dungeon speedruns yourself to get these talismans. You will be able to just buy them off the AH. You're all throwing tantrums and claiming that you're being forced into PvE to maintain BiS, when that is literally not the case here. So yes, it sounds very much like people are whining that they can't just immediately acquire whatever new item/gear is implemented through whatever it is they naturally do all day anyway.

Ehm..

Im not sure what page you started reading on, but that is not really the general community concirn here. It is not FOMO, it is not powercreep, it is not pvp-only players too stoopid to finisha speed run.
its the fact that this Warcrest sink, is not really a warcrest sink in this proposed form. it is gonna take longer with a fully empty currency inventory on a bis RR 80 character to grind the Champion Marks via speedrun quests, than it will to farm the 100g or the 1000 warcrest. That is clearly a sign of the price missing its mark.

Now if we also look at how all of the community members in here are viewing and debating for/against this, you can see how distant Ruby's line of thinking is, from how we the community sees the game. He is all focused on how Champion Marks comes from both speedrunning dungeons but more so on Hardmode achivements and future more hardmodes. Meanwhile we the community only see the income of Champion Marks via speedrunning, because we havnt really embraced the hardmodes as content, as a whole. (few have). But that clearly shows how distant we are from eachother on this topic.

For me personally, its the stubornness to refuse to even acknowledge that this direction is purely artificial made by the devs to try and keep LFG ingame channels active, and reuse the same old grind in the same dungeons. This is not adding any new content, running the same Crypt and BB runs. It will likely not create that many more hardmode runs in lfg channel either, based on how we see this samplesize of ignoring it fully in this topic alone.

So what is to be gained here, surely its not the +8 stats that are the main issue. Heck I dont even run Endless Knowledge for 160 int lol.
It really is a crystal clear example of the Devs wanting to push this "pve bis" approach so badly, and force it so hard. That even for a warcrest sink, for absolute minumum gains in power, they try to do it. And by the sound of it, are absolutely not willing to change direction or approach on it, on an already slipperly slope of heavy pve focus. Let me quickly remind everyone what further pve content is still to come on RoR, Post Citysiege 24man raids. Sure as hell will have BiS items locked behind it at this rate. The four mini tombs in LOTD pve part2. Collosus worldboss. Tomb of the Vulture lord dungeon.

If we can not even be rid of pve enforcement for a Warcrest sink, imagine in 5 years when all of this content is out how much pve you need to do on each charcter to get the best gear on RoR. And that is despite the argumentation of RoR's pve is already good enough that players play it without the BiS gatekeeping.

I will get my +25s on my main(s). Probably on day1 even. I dont mind if it do, or dont. I dont have a chase item to gain from this due to the state of my accounts wealth. Why I am overly active in this topic, is because it seems very obvious to me that the devs are making an enemy out of their own community by continueing down this path. The spite levels are higher than ever, and even the newest wave of streamers and content creators are a couple of months in asking the questions "how do we feel about pve rewards on this game?" It couldnt be more obvious how big the cliff is between Dev direction here and community desire.

I dont mind doing hardmode achivements, its fun! But adding champion marks to these new talismans, is not adding any new content, it adds an old grind that is neither needed nor wanted. And the devs seem to fully ignore this feedback, and stick to thier Player vs Enormousenviroment approach and continue to ramp it up at any chance

[Havitner]

As someone who enjoys both PvP and PvE, I am totally fine with a mix of both being necessary to build the theoretically 'perfect' character. PvE would feel very unsatisfying to people like me if it was just a pointless detour that didn't give you anything truly unique and BiS.

...but that's not really relevant here. To quote the wiki:

By design, Pure Talismans are unbound and can be traded, mailed, and sold to other players on the Auction House.
This is intentional so that players who might play purely PvP or PvE have additional methods to acquire them, either from friends or for gold.

Since the +25's do not truly require the player to do both PvP and PvE anyway (I would totally support that being the case, but oh well), why not go one step further to quell some of the complaints?
In addition to the Talisman itself being tradable, why not split the Pure Essence ingredient in two and make those tradable too?
Crafting a +25 would then require one +24, one War Essence (unbound, 1000 crests and 50G), and one Champion's Essence (unbound, 3 marks and 50G).
If you're going to let the PvPheads skip the PvE part by buying the finished talisman anyway, why not at least let them use their own War Crests? Then they would be able to work towards part of their goal through PvP instead of just farming gold to buy the finished product. Presumably, the people who only do PvP are the ones most in need of a War Crest sink anyway.

as the team begins to shift away from "War Crests for everything, everywhere" and back into specific types of content being required to earn specific things.

I 100% support this change in design mindset, and am very excited for it.

[Tushi]

Good for you. You have an established account, so I have great news for you. You don't have to do dungeon speedruns yourself to get these talismans. You will be able to just buy them off the AH. You're all throwing tantrums and claiming that you're being forced into PvE to maintain BiS, when that is literally not the case here. So yes, it sounds very much like people are whining that they can't just immediately acquire whatever new item/gear is implemented through whatever it is they naturally do all day anyway.

Ehm..

Im not sure what page you started reading on, but that is not really the general community concirn here. It is not FOMO, it is not powercreep, it is not pvp-only players too stoopid to finisha speed run.

Except that is basically exactly what people are complaining about lol. The majority of complaints from people in this thread are people complaining about any new BiS items being locked in any way behind PvE. This thread is literally full of "pvp only" players, who are complaining because they don't want to miss out on upcoming, extremely marginal, powercreep because they don't want to do have to do anything outside their preferred pvp only activity (which they won't).

its the fact that this Warcrest sink, is not really a warcrest sink in this proposed form. it is gonna take longer with a fully empty currency inventory on a bis RR 80 character to grind the Champion Marks via speedrun quests, than it will to farm the 100g or the 1000 warcrest. That is clearly a sign of the price missing its mark.

You are the one who decided:

It is clearly a Warcrest sink

and barely any posts beyond your own mention anything about the 'crest sink'. The majority of posts complaining about the cost, are complaining solely because of it having any pve requirement at all.

[Jeliel80]

If you removed RvR/PvP from RoR, how fast would the server shut down?

I understand it's much easier for the devs to work on the pve part, and they like to value their work, but pushing PvE like they're doing lately is absurd in my view.

Also adding new currencies, after praising themselves from unifying them is a bit counterintuitive.

I see a lot of confusion, pop will keep dwindling with this direction.
Remember, pve has very short term ppl retention, apart that nobody cares, for the most part, about it in RoR

[M0rw47h]

I think different devs work on PvP and PvE.

[Jeliel80]

I think different devs work on PvP and PvE.

That's correct, and apparently working on the pve is much easier for technical reasons.

[M0rw47h]

Certainly more safe for sanity.
Nobody will attack you, because you changed something in PvE. Meanwhile people will jump your throat, because somehow their favourite class deals 1% less damage after patch and is "dead in PvP".

[kleinbuchstabe]

You're all throwing tantrums and claiming that you're being forced into PvE to maintain BiS, when that is literally not the case here.

Well, +25 Talismans are BiS gear. And it can only get obtained wich CM from PvE. Ergo: You are forced into PvE to maintain BiS, literally. Only because you could buy them in AH (assuming someone sells them), it doesnt change the source of obtainability gameplaywise. Someone else has to do the PvE part. Its like claiming, you can buy milk in the supermarket, so nobody has to milk a cow. But someone has to, thats where it comes from.

And as already mentioned, the criticism isnt directly about the Level 25 talismans and the 8 stats. The point is that, for the vast majority of players, the focus of this game is on PvP. And therefore its hard to understand, why the developers keep forcing this PvP community to engage with game content they have little to no interest in, instead of simply taking the community’s feedback seriously and acting on it. imo thats kind of absurd...

[live4treasure]

More mandatory PVE... When will it end?

[Tushi]

You're all throwing tantrums and claiming that you're being forced into PvE to maintain BiS, when that is literally not the case here.

Well, +25 Talismans are BiS gear. And it can only get obtained wich CM from PvE. Ergo: You are forced into PvE to maintain BiS, literally. Only because you could buy them in AH (assuming someone sells them), it doesnt change the source of obtainability gameplaywise. Someone else has to do the PvE part. Its like claiming, you can buy milk in the supermarket, so nobody has to milk a cow. But someone has to, thats where it comes from.

And as already mentioned, the criticism isnt directly about the Level 25 talismans and the 8 stats. The point is that, for the vast majority of players, the focus of this game is on PvP. And therefore its hard to understand, why the developers keep forcing this PvP community to engage with game content they have little to no interest in, instead of simply taking the community’s feedback seriously and acting on it. imo thats kind of absurd...

Not a great analogy. Using your analogy, you're arguing there shouldn't be dairy farmers and everyone should have to milk their own cows. PvE players who farm dungeons and sell the talismans should be rewarded for doing the thing other people don't want to do. As shocking as it is to some of you, your personal likes and dislikes aren't shared by everyone, some people like running dungeons, maybe the devs like working on dungeons. Why shouldn't they make money selling talismans that other people don't want to farm. Despite most peoples delusional take that apparently all BiS gear is now gated by pve, the vast majority of gearing and progression in this game is based around, and reliant on PvP (as it certainly should be), that doesn't mean it all should be.

You also don't seem to understand the meaning of 'literally'. You are not 'literally' forced to run pve to maintain BiS. You Literally state why in your very next sentence, when you point out you don't have to run pve at all to acquire the new talismans if you don't want to, because you can just buy them.