White Lions Pounce

[Soulcheg]

And late game no class has AP issues

Choking Fury - and any class have AP issues.

thats the thing ap pots made this ability fall off in effectiveness late game, but not only this, other abilities became kinda pointless as well like choppas keep on choppin

Even with AP pots (they have cd, remember?) Choking Fury is still a terrible thing to deal with, ap pool runs very fast.

[dkabib]

AM its impossible to run away with those fast and amazingly tons of dots/dmg/slow
SW no need to coment, been OP since live lol (crazy fast rotation no need to stop to use skils mostly, Slow, FA)
WL only need 1 pounce and its done...

Shammies run faster.
SHs do the same as SWs, except for FA, but you can't cast that while moving anyway.
Oh, what about Mara pull, and then he knock you down while you still flying?

We don't need 1 sided opinions here.

[bandshark]

pounce against runaway is already a loss - seriously. The cost of pounce, in addition to the AP sap of the shammy, is just a win/win for the shammy. I would bet that any 1/2 way decent shammy licks his chops when he can actually bait a WL to chase him beyond one pounce.

I agree, but it is the only chance vs runaway. No other melee can even get close though. I have said all along that live pounce was far superior and useful. That is why it is so noticeable in ROR, because it no longer lands on the moving target and has to be repeated over and over.

It is the healing shaman without a big shield available that complain about pounce.

to complain about ib kd is kinda silly since it cools down 50% faster, and gives a consistent 3s kd unlike bg where you might have between 2-5

I'm not complaining about IB knockdown, I was responding to a hypothetical situation where maras have Pounce and Ams have runaway. M1 champ challenge is still an easy and effective way to counter a WL, and easy to coordinate. Getting people to drop current target to focus the cage is the issue.

the crux of the issue which is that pounce lets you effectively ignore an entire branch of cc with one which no other class can do.

Why do you want to punt a squishy, easily Ap drained Wl rather than kill it for renown with a cage and or knockdown? Lava? With maras pull the destro tanks current roll of punting classes into the zerg will no longer exist.

id rather have banish weakness bg m1 because of all the bws and other rdps that order runs

So you are admitting pounce is less of an issue than BW's? Don't complain about pounce when you choose to not negate it by slotting banish weakness M1, or have one of the other popularly rolled tanks do it.



I've healed/guarded many of my Mara/destro mates who wanted to roll Wl's just to be able to legitimately claim how OP pounce is. They die repetitively, do less damage, get less death blows, and continue to play their Maras mostly; yet they obstinately continue to beat the same drum that pounce is OP and Mara isn't.


The only way to end the War balance debate is to forgo lore, and to have all classes on both sides. It would be fun at the character selection screen to roll a Blackguard and choose the path of the BG or IB etc.

But then again I also prefer everyone to have the same gear and talis/potions in pvp games, unless it is a loot corpse system, which the current generation doesn't have the stomach for. We can't even have viable pvp servers anymore.

Equally equipped players would deflate internet egos who prefer to high five over killing inferior equipped players, so it will never be implemented.

[Sulorie]

Sounds fun, but lets give IB a 5 second knock down, and AM's Runaway so it can be just as easily negated. I would love to see Am's with runaway, then I would have no reason to play a Shaman when roaming solo t2.


For real fun just give Am's runaway, and see if destro feels they need a pounce on a melee class in T2.

Too bad that AM have no free tactic slot for Run Away.

[Ridduk]

[Soulcheg]

[mursie]

pounce against runaway is already a loss - seriously. The cost of pounce, in addition to the AP sap of the shammy, is just a win/win for the shammy. I would bet that any 1/2 way decent shammy licks his chops when he can actually bait a WL to chase him beyond one pounce.

Now - if pounce would actually, you know, put you on the target... well then, I could see shammys really hating WL's. my guess is - that was how the game was originally intended to be designed. What we have now is nowhere close.

In fairness - I am an NA player with 180+ ping... in a private server not optimized for melee latency as identified and posted by the devs in here: http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... f=5&t=3012

So - maybe the issue for Euro WL's is completely different. I dunno.

As far I've been playing my shaman, I dont believe in what ya pointed out bro.

win/win for your WL...
If it really were true your win/win rate WL's would not always search for shaman atm, the way pounce always hitting and theres not even time to proc Runaway... we are just the 1st free kill target.

Pounce always doing dmg even if not landing on top of shaman (even like 8-15 steps away, the dmg still hitting).
All ya need to do is Pounce once, snare and your lion finish the job, because even at RR35+ a pounce its always doing over 70% HP even if it missed the landing on top...

Plus Runaway its abit broken its really not proccing, I rarely saw it proc in time to try something at my shaman.

Only class that my shaman can avoid from a close engage is a WH, WL its just impossible the way Pounce is always hitting no matter the distance it lands from you (on top or some steps away).

With Runaway not proccing a crap is just impossible to RUN...

AM its impossible to run away with those fast and amazingly tons of dots/dmg/slow
SW no need to coment, been OP since live lol (crazy fast rotation no need to stop to use skils mostly, Slow, FA)
WL only need 1 pounce and its done...

The same way ppl say about latency for melees, its same for casting my skills, having to cast like 2x/3x Sticky Feet/Bleed fer me/Eeeek because the server wont register or it will take like 2-3secs because its EU latency (and its instant skill...), etc...

I think you might be doing it wrong then.

The problem - pounce does not do 70% of a shammy's HP - if it is then you are geared wrong. Second, pounce almost never - ever lands me on target of shammy... definitely not with the ability to snare. I almost always have to pounce and then hit charge to have a chance to get to shammy and snare him. Even then, the snare is short lived by a good shammy who cleanses... and then continues to kite/run. By this time, my AP is screwed and now it's just a matter of time.

I should point out - this discussion is centered around shammy's in the lake looking to gank. urbunnywrote, morguk, nurfme, and a few others whose names escape me. They are specced specifically to kite dmg, drain you down, and then inevitable dot kill you. A heal specced shammy in an sc is a completely different ballgame. You should reach out to those shammy's if you are having trouble running their methods. ATM with level cap where it is, a shammy in rvr specced to gank can be extremely difficult for any class 1v1.

[Twyxx]

I will agree that pounce can hit pretty hard (I've had like 6/700), buuuut not 70%+ a person's HP.


(Also WLs will always go for the shammy over a DoK/zealot at the moment, DoK for obvious reasons and zealot's cleanse tactic is gg to FO).

[Korhill]

Twyxx is that true that you play a marauder now instead as a main ^^

[peterthepan3]

So WL are pretty powerful in T2 - wow! Did anyone complaining actually play T4; where WLs were reduced to a 'kill them in 2 seconds or gg' class? Pounce is powerful, yes; but it pales in comparison to what a lot of other classes have, and a class as difficult to play well as a WL should be given a bone every now and then.