Gear "grind"

[th3gatekeeper]

I've read 90% of this thread and I want to point out something.

People are focused on the cost and time to grind gear. It gets too much and people quit (as some claim)...

What is odd to me. Is if the game were fun to play for the sake of playing, people wouldn't quit OR stay based on gear grind.

I think.people need to realize that this game died on live... So we shouldn't be trying to "remake live".

If the game were FUN first, people wouldn't care about gear grind or gear. You can be competitive in BL/Merc/Anni.... People get upset because gear is THE reason they play... Which is wrong.

The devs need to be focused on how toake it more fun, not "how do we adjust the carrot and how big a stick do we need" if it's FUN people don't need a carrot... Hell... Look at games like counter strike, or overwatch. There isn't a "carrot" really for those games.

RvR is not FUN... Which is why it FEELS so painful of a gear grind... Trying to do RVR when it's 200vs30 isn't fun...

Make it fun first, and people will play regardless of gear cost.

Oh my dear that blue eyed naiv like a child ( no attack on you) iam feel exactly The Same! But it isnt like that.. So many ppl here are Just playing for rewarding ( gear) and nothing Else thats the fact! The Rolf perma stomp in orvr, the premates that dont want a challange Just want to "farm" thats not playing for fun...

Oh I know... I'm well aware of what people currently do... People who do SCs enjoy that more than RvR but it's still not "fun" most people see SCs as a means to an end (gear) and many admit once they get it, they stop doing SCs....

Same with RvR. For many it's a means to and end(gear) and once they have it, they are less likely to keep playing. The problem is... Rather than address the "fun" concept, people keep getting hung up on the cost which then causes Devs to get mad because the cost (in their minds) is ALL they have to keep people from that carrot... Once they have it, they stop playing.

So this is why I challenge the current systems. The current structure of the game. Things like guard (as you know) that are at the center of the game... If we keep everything the same, then it's just a constant gear cycle and people move on to other games...

If you want to makeup this game grow, you should start looking at player experiences and what.makes the game fun.... Not focusing on "here are wildly expensive gear options to keep you hooked for another 2 months"....

RvR is broken. Zergs dominate. It's fun sometimes when your guild organise a premade warband to crush the other side.... But outside of "scheduled RvR times" the game is very boring....

Same with SCs.... Unless you have a premade and trying to challenge another premade, it's largely boring.... People get "enjoyment" when they get gear or currency. Which keeps people satiated until..... They have the gear. Then it's hard for people to care...


There needs to be a focus on making the game FUN both for die hards AND CASUALS as well as giving people reason to play above just "gear grind"...

Otherwise eventually you run out of carrots... And the population dies minus a few groups of Uber die hards that will.play even with only 100 people on the server total... That's where RoR is headed and I hope I am wrong.... But that's what I see....

[Daknallbomb]

I've read 90% of this thread and I want to point out something.

People are focused on the cost and time to grind gear. It gets too much and people quit (as some claim)...

What is odd to me. Is if the game were fun to play for the sake of playing, people wouldn't quit OR stay based on gear grind.

I think.people need to realize that this game died on live... So we shouldn't be trying to "remake live".

If the game were FUN first, people wouldn't care about gear grind or gear. You can be competitive in BL/Merc/Anni.... People get upset because gear is THE reason they play... Which is wrong.

The devs need to be focused on how toake it more fun, not "how do we adjust the carrot and how big a stick do we need" if it's FUN people don't need a carrot... Hell... Look at games like counter strike, or overwatch. There isn't a "carrot" really for those games.

RvR is not FUN... Which is why it FEELS so painful of a gear grind... Trying to do RVR when it's 200vs30 isn't fun...

Make it fun first, and people will play regardless of gear cost.

Oh my dear that blue eyed naiv like a child ( no attack on you) iam feel exactly The Same! But it isnt like that.. So many ppl here are Just playing for rewarding ( gear) and nothing Else thats the fact! The Rolf perma stomp in orvr, the premates that dont want a challange Just want to "farm" thats not playing for fun...

Oh I know... I'm well aware of what people currently do... People who do SCs enjoy that more than RvR but it's still not "fun" most people see SCs as a means to an end (gear) and many admit once they get it, they stop doing SCs....

Same with RvR. For many it's a means to and end(gear) and once they have it, they are less likely to keep playing. The problem is... Rather than address the "fun" concept, people keep getting hung up on the cost which then causes Devs to get mad because the cost (in their minds) is ALL they have to keep people from that carrot... Once they have it, they stop playing.

So this is why I challenge the current systems. The current structure of the game. Things like guard (as you know) that are at the center of the game... If we keep everything the same, then it's just a constant gear cycle and people move on to other games...

If you want to makeup this game grow, you should start looking at player experiences and what.makes the game fun.... Not focusing on "here are wildly expensive gear options to keep you hooked for another 2 months"....

RvR is broken. Zergs dominate. It's fun sometimes when your guild organise a premade warband to crush the other side.... But outside of "scheduled RvR times" the game is very boring....

Same with SCs.... Unless you have a premade and trying to challenge another premade, it's largely boring.... People get "enjoyment" when they get gear or currency. Which keeps people satiated until..... They have the gear. Then it's hard for people to care...


There needs to be a focus on making the game FUN both for die hards AND CASUALS as well as giving people reason to play above just "gear grind"...

Otherwise eventually you run out of carrots... And the population dies minus a few groups of Uber die hards that will.play even with only 100 people on the server total... That's where RoR is headed and I hope I am wrong.... But that's what I see....

i 100 % agree here but i have 100 % no idea how to change that ;D

[dansari]

Part of the problem I think is the core game design. How do you find ways to balance 150v100? Or 150v50? Or 100v20? There are other games like league and Overwatch where you can ranked queue or normal queue, but is that something that could be implemented here?

You've covered things like this before gate, but I think revamping the current rvr mechanic with making BOs act like flags in Nordenwatch might be a nice change. And then if you could implement a ranked queue system where 6s could get paired with another 6 of the same realm to fight 12v12.. I dunno would that keep people interested?

Maybe if you cap a BO flag (say it'll take one minute solo or 30s with a full group after guards are killed), if the realm with aao is guarding the BO then they get ticks of renown every minute for defending. If a realm without aao is defending a BO they get nothing or maybe an increased duration on their ticks. Then the realm attacking that BO gets a % of the ticks granted to the defending realm, again based on AAO. Now you have an rvr system that rewards people for fighting and for holding off larger forces, and a scenario system that rewards skilled players in the form of leaderboards?

[Bozzax]

You design RvR where the larger force needs to be at multiple places and defend (domination locks)

Where blob = fail

[Daknallbomb]

Hmm i think for scs there is the problem that meta owns premate and premate owns pugs. Its boring to not have a Single chance If you dont run a meta setup against one. But The problem here OS how you can ever balance that i think there is no chance for!.

I like The Holding a Flag bo idea that you wrote! But i still have The opinion that When one side OS outnumbered for more than 30- 40 minits that it should not give any rewards for locking a zone or a keep! Mayb Player base makes even numbers bye hisself than

[Aurandilaz]

IMO the "Conq gear being must" does not count as argument. However fact is, the grind is affecting T4 negatively. People won't partake in RvR, because they were well know that they have small chances of winning a bag, and the amount of Conq medals dropping is abysmal; so why bother?
So when someone says in T4 "Come help us take the keep", you end up thinking "meh, why should I contribute to a process where my chance of winning a bag is 0%, and my help only makes it easier for others to win bags?". Latecomers to zone get nada.

Theoretical ideas that may not even work:
-Different Victory Spoils:
-current PQ mechanic that favours a 6man farming pugs
and
-completely random lottery, so that even casuals can get something from participating

But to be honest, one of the biggest grievances IMO is that capping BOs does not contribute towards earning medals, nor does attacking keeps. So if you want Conq gear, focus on farming soloers and lowbies.

Which is why the core mechanic of RvR, Bos and Keeps should SOMEHOW aid in earning Conq gear.
Say, a BO lock awards one Conq Shard, with 10 shards being convertible into one real Conq medallion. Keep lord kill could award 5 shards. Carrying a resource could award one shard. (instead of current one Soldiers medallion, because Devastator gear...?)

[dansari]

Eh I don't think you should remove the reward for flipping a zone just because they have more numbers. Right now that's really the only way you can actually flip zones with the Lord hp as it is. But, I think rewarding the outnumbered realm for attempting to fight back is worthwhile. Maybe you can also link Lord hp with number of BOs under your control, so having all four cuts the Lord hp by 75%, but not having any makes him Invincible? That would then require the realm to work together and give the opposing realm a chance to impact the Lord fight without actually having to fight the blob.

@aurandilaz agreed I think implementing a "fragment" system into conq would be beneficial, but that's not changing a core problem of: casuals don't play for fun they play for loot

[Daknallbomb]

IMO the "Conq gear being must" does not count as argument. However fact is, the grind is affecting T4 negatively. People won't partake in RvR, because they were well know that they have small chances of winning a bag, and the amount of Conq medals dropping is abysmal; so why bother?
So when someone says in T4 "Come help us take the keep", you end up thinking "meh, why should I contribute to a process where my chance of winning a bag is 0%, and my help only makes it easier for others to win bags?". Latecomers to zone get nada.

Theoretical ideas that may not even work:
-Different Victory Spoils:
-current PQ mechanic that favours a 6man farming pugs
and
-completely random lottery, so that even casuals can get something from participating

But to be honest, one of the biggest grievances IMO is that capping BOs does not contribute towards earning medals, nor does attacking keeps. So if you want Conq gear, focus on farming soloers and lowbies.

Which is why the core mechanic of RvR, Bos and Keeps should SOMEHOW aid in earning Conq gear.
Say, a BO lock awards one Conq Shard, with 10 shards being convertible into one real Conq medallion. Keep lord kill could award 5 shards. Carrying a resource could award one shard. (instead of current one Soldiers medallion, because Devastator gear...?)

Cool ideas But that wont fix the 300% aao Problem what is in my eyes the biggest Problem in orvr

[Aurandilaz]

regarding my aforementioned bag-loot system split;

What if we keep the current system in place for the zone lock, with 750/750
but
we also got another RvR related PQ, that is, the Keep Siege
where awards are 1000(rng)/500(contri) awarded, but only to victors

(and maybe 50% of the size of the final lock rewards)

[Daknallbomb]

Eh I don't think you should remove the reward for flipping a zone just because they have more numbers. Right now that's really the only way you can actually flip zones with the Lord hp as it is. But, I think rewarding the outnumbered realm for attempting to fight back is worthwhile. Maybe you can also link Lord hp with number of BOs under your control, so having all four cuts the Lord hp by 75%, but not having any makes him Invincible? That would then require the realm to work together and give the opposing realm a chance to impact the Lord fight without actually having to fight the blob.

@aurandilaz agreed I think implementing a "fragment" system into conq would be beneficial, but that's not changing a core problem of: casuals don't play for fun they play for loot

You Hit the nail on the head If there where even numbers and there never will be a lock they have to do something against that thats The hope! Mayb Just Start with no reward at more than 100% aao 40 minits. If there is 80% everything normal