¨Join Solo¨ and ¨Join Group¨

[Elenol]

And here's an example of some comments that feel unhelpful even if maybe they're right. In my opinion, these are the types of comments that don't further a conversation. They kind of derail it and make it worse. The worst part is, sometimes there is really good nuggets in there. But all it takes is a little toxic to get people to ignore the good stuff:

Spoiler:

Someone got farmed in SCs.

[probably true but that's kind of tangent to the point. It touches on it... barely.]

Spoiler:

its nice to see this cry from DPS AM. Maybee if you will try to be usefull for your team you will not lose so many scenarios

(and yes i never do scenarios solo, coz i play this game to play with friends)

[again I feel this is tangent to the original point]

Spoiler:

so what you basically saying: you dont care how you play, you dont care about your team, you dont even know how to play, all is indifferent for you. but still what you care about is that you lose against premade but not another people with the same "i dont care, i dont know, i cant" mindset?

if THAT is the mindset of pug players, yes please let those people play amongst themselves rolling their head over the keyboard.

[Intentionally being obtuse and not understanding the dramatic hyperbole for effect. The problem is, there is kind of a good point hidden in that slightly toxic message. But now the other side won't actually see it.]

Spoiler:

If you guys want to roleplay and drink beer at taverns and go kill PvE mobs, by all means go ahead and have fun. But this has always been a group PvP game. And when it comes to group PvP, coordination will always beat improvisation. If you are too lazy to do a "/ad anyone wants to group up for SCs?" then don't complain on the forums when people who actually form balanced groups and join TS/Vent farm you non-stop.



TL;DR: Don't nerf my PvP just because you don't know how to PvP.

[This isn't addressing the issue at all. People aren't wanting to take away from high level pvp. They just want high level pvp to fight other high level pvp. It's not trying to bring down the ceiling of the game. It's trying to keep the ceiling from destroying the floor over and over. There are retorts about queues and stuff that apply much more to this topic. This isn't addressing the topic at all. No one was suggesting to take away from people organizing as far as I can tell.]

Spoiler:

- Super Mario Bros. : I am bad at platforming. I refuse to learn how to jump. Devs, please give Mario perma-flight.

- Call of Duty: I am bad at aiming. I refuse to learn how to aim. Devs, please give me permanent auto-aim so i can head-shot all the time.

- DoTA: I am bad at Support. I refuse to learn how to support. Devs, please remove support Heroes from the game.

- Return of Reckoning: I am bad at joining/making premades. I refuse to learn. Devs, please remove premades from SCs.

[This is comparing apples and oranges so much. No one is suggesting to remove organized, elite players from the game. They're merely trying to find a way to help funnel the elite players and groups into playing against each other which in theory should be more fun for everyone. Some of your examples have methods of doing that already.]

[Elenol]

Terrible example is terrible. You have someone from a completely different gaming genre asking for RoR to be more like the genre he enjoys. Should a game be radically changed just because some people don't get how it is supposed to be played?


If i enjoy Fighting games, i go play Street Fighter. I don't ask RoR devs to give us unarmed combat.
If i enjoy FPS games, i play Fallout. I don't ask RoR devs to give us guns and grenades.
If i enjoy driving simulators, i play Gran Turismo. I don't ask RoR devs to give us cars.

If you want casual PvP with separate brackets/solo queues/whatever, go play some other game. WAR/RoR is about coordination and teamplay. Don't try to change it just because you want a "different experience".

I don't care what the genre is. The developers are putting together a game we all love deeply or we wouldn't all be here playing and posting on the forums. There is a place in these forums to post suggestions. Probably most suggestions won't be able to get implemented for various reasons (bad ideas or too difficult to implement mostly), but we're still allowed (and I think even encouraged) to post these suggestions. If folks think they have an idea to make the game better and they do that in a respectful, intelligent way, then there isn't a reason to bash them about it. You keep bringing up WoW PvE.

Spoiler:

I'm gonna use my PvE experience to explain how i see WAR/RoR.

I played WoW: WotLK (Wrath of the Lich King). I had a DK and made it to level 80. Everything was good. It was time to start raiding.

I read the chat and people were looking for DPS. I didn't have great gear, but i was sure i was a good player. "This will be easy!" i said to myself. So i joined the pug and headed to Ulduar.

People didn't join vent. The leader just gave some very basic information on the first fight. We died. Horribly. We tried again, and again, and again we failed. Sometimes we didn't have enough DPS; some times the tank lost aggro. Whatever reason it was, we barely made it to the second boss. A couple hours had passed, and after another wipe people simply started leaving the group. FAIL.

I told this story to a good friend of mine, and he just laughed. He said, "join me, bro". And i joined his guild. Full of experienced players with pretty good gear. I joined Ventrilo and they explained all the fights to me, and we breezed through the raid in record time. I got an item or two from that run and learnt a lot about raiding. And i realized i wasn't ready for end-game yet (the guild carried me). So i started practicing my rotations and farming better gear, so one day i could be useful in end-game raids and be top-DPS-dawg.

Where am i going with this? Well, i always heard that players are the real content in a PvP game. To me, SCs are the "raids" of a PvP game. If i am leveling a new character and join a SC while being level 13 wearing Decimator gear, i don't expect to win. Maybe i will get carried (like i was in WoW) but chances are i will miserably fail (like i did in that pug). And it's ok because that's how it is supposed to be. One day i will be level 20 wearing full Conquest gear (which is OK for competing), learn to effectively use my skills, learn to assist, learn to prioritize targets, form a premade, and win almost all my fights. That should be the aim in a PvP/RvR game.

You don't see people in PvE games saying "hey!! That end-game raid is impossible to complete with an unorganized pug wearing green items!!! NERF IT so we can breeze through it!!" (and if people actually ask stuff like this they usually get ignored). So, why do people want their PvP dumbed down in a PvP game? If you don't want to do those things, that's fine. But don't try to change the nature of the game just so you can "win".

Well I can be every bit as obtuse. This isn't WoW. This is the developers' chance to make an MMO that is different and maybe even better in some ways. If we wanted to play WoW PvE, we could still do that. That game is still going strong. I was just using a bad analogy to point out that folks haven't been comparing things well sometimes. I didn't do it in a very clear way I guess.

And I mean, maybe folks trying to find ways to change up the queues are all wrong. It's just the way that some other folks have been retorting that has bothered me. It's been a lot of shifting the conversation around to suit their needs a lot or just lazy character bashing.

[Jaycub]

no one is going to read all that, you need to consolidate your post/ideas, and get to a central point in under a couple paragraphs lol.

[Elenol]

=) I got my buddy to read it who was just starting the thread! Success!

[Elenol]

Although maybe not an efficient use of time.

[Gerv]

Yet the demands started with a prefabricated issue where players attempting to queue as a group were dodging and causing unbalanced scenarios. Holding the normal queue hostage by continuing this behavior created the leverage on Aza to implement the group queue. Now the hostage takers want everyone who disagrees with them to quit the game because it's how they want it now. I suppose they will convert to your authoritarian takeover of the imposed meta of the game, or leave. Or queue solo with lv12 toons to annoy you.[/quote]

How can you say that when the reason that people "dodged" what a joke to name it that, were people trying to play with their friends. It was not our fault that there was not implemented group quer so that we could play as a group with our friends, sometimes friends did not get the same pop, so we dropped que and re-qued, that or we were fighting in rvr and dropped it altogether. I am sorry that you got the blunt of the stick being a solo quer or "pugger". But please, dont come in here and accuse us (the people who happen to make friends and want to que together) out to be the bad people who caused this situation.

[Gerv]

Order guilds purposely losing every SC to draw it longer to farm pugs... Been doing it for days.


Its time we get solo and group que or they will continue to abuse this, it's just retarded. People say the population cant support it, but I know during prime time there is enough for a good amount of 6v6 pops. And the alternative... what we have now, is turning 6 mans in TS w/ meta builds loose on pugs which is honestly worse.

There is clearly something wrong w/ the system when organized groups are purposely losing.

If you can actually list any decent order guilds who even make a premade - a full god damn premade i will believe you. Until then, there are no established order guilds who even run groups. Especially in US time when it is so bad that you can win a Sc with 3 good people coming together in solo que. Maybe in Euro time this is an issue. I dont play then so I dont know but I can not even begin to pick out US order guilds who are good enough/smart enough or organised enough to do such a thing.

[Coryphaus]

Order guilds purposely losing every SC to draw it longer to farm pugs... Been doing it for days.


Its time we get solo and group que or they will continue to abuse this, it's just retarded. People say the population cant support it, but I know during prime time there is enough for a good amount of 6v6 pops. And the alternative... what we have now, is turning 6 mans in TS w/ meta builds loose on pugs which is honestly worse.

There is clearly something wrong w/ the system when organized groups are purposely losing.

If you can actually list any decent order guilds who even make a premade - a full god damn premade i will believe you. Until then, there are no established order guilds who even run groups. Especially in US time when it is so bad that you can win a Sc with 3 good people coming together in solo que. Maybe in Euro time this is an issue. I dont play then so I dont know but I can not even begin to pick out US order guilds who are good enough/smart enough or organised enough to do such a thing.

Shadows of devinity
Dragons of Eternity
War buddy

Those are 3 Ordo guilds I can name off the top of my head that run premades

[Gerv]

Exactly my point, SoD premades, firstly, and this will make me an elitist pick but what ever, are not very good and secondly are not the kind of minded individuals that would sit and farm gear from destro.

DoE, yes if Halhammer is on and Tkless is with them and Twyxx actually decided to do something other than mail box guard in Altdorf they can put a good group together but again they are not the kind of people who as Jaycub put it "order who farm destro for gear".

Warbuddy, I am pretty sure they are euro and I dont even believe they have more than 6 members on at one time, most I have ever seen of Warbuddy is 4 people on at the same time.

The idea that Order premades sit and farm destro for "gear" is ridiculous. Any other guilds out there you can think of?

[Tklees]

Order guilds purposely losing every SC to draw it longer to farm pugs... Been doing it for days.


Its time we get solo and group que or they will continue to abuse this, it's just retarded. People say the population cant support it, but I know during prime time there is enough for a good amount of 6v6 pops. And the alternative... what we have now, is turning 6 mans in TS w/ meta builds loose on pugs which is honestly worse.

There is clearly something wrong w/ the system when organized groups are purposely losing.

If you can actually list any decent order guilds who even make a premade - a full god damn premade i will believe you. Until then, there are no established order guilds who even run groups. Especially in US time when it is so bad that you can win a Sc with 3 good people coming together in solo que. Maybe in Euro time this is an issue. I dont play then so I dont know but I can not even begin to pick out US order guilds who are good enough/smart enough or organised enough to do such a thing.

Shadows of devinity
Dragons of Eternity
War buddy

Those are 3 Ordo guilds I can name off the top of my head that run premades

Lol if there are more than 4 ppl on in DoE is a rare occasion. We normally field a 4 man. But most of the time we are helping of king Halhammrr farm for green seeds.