Fun is decreasing - lets discuss

[kpihuss]

One thing that I think is rarely mentioned is that the fun of the game is also decreasing due to the simplification and ease with which everything is now obtained: You level up RR faster, you equip BiS gear without having to make any effort, PVE guarantees you the complete set after 3-4 dungeon repetitions, etc. all those things that have made the game so extremely easy are also what make it less fun.

The need to push yourself to obtain things has been lost, and now it's a one-dimensional game.

[Buttbeard]

@Buttbeard: This could be a low/mid tier thing. They have probably soften the group setups there to get more pops which I think is fine I guess.

In t4 I cannot confirm your claims. The setups are pretty even, especially regarding tanks and healers. Sure, there can be additional dps that can heal as well like dps WPs/DoKs but they mostly do self healing, it doesn't count as group healer. And yes, there are situations where people queue as e.g. dps Shaman/AM and then switch to healing inside the scenarios. That's rather a rare case and while they gain one healer they loose one dps, so it is still kind of fair.

In an MMORPG where there are so many factors come into play it is impossible to make it 100% even. I think the new queue is a HUGE improvements to what we had before. If you still don't like it then feel free to form your own group however you want.

tldr: I think the queue system works very well. If you think it is the reason you are loosing then get better or make your own group.

yes that is why i made sure to mention it was regarding T2 not max level/T4 and also random SC.

And yeah i agree. it will never be 100%. there are way to many factors.
I just mention what i personally noticed. That Destro more often than Order lack healers. and also more often are one player short.
As i also said i was not sure myself if i just imagined it as we often do tend to imagine stuff like that

So i just started to take notes, record some data and yes it confirmed it 100% that in fact order more often have more healers and also more often are one player more.

That is in the SC i have been in. but data from 73 Sc over 3 weeks is not nearly enough to prove anything besides that in MY experience this is a fact.

Others might very well have experienced the very opposite from all i know

Also my terrible data gives no context or clues to why it show destro often lacking healers or even being outnumbered more often.
There might be many reasons for this that may or may not include the queue system. or it might just be bad luck on my part. or that destro have a tendency to not join sc they queued up for more often than order. or something else.

It is just a bit annoying. As i do not mind losing Scenarios that happens and is part of the game. but it is a bit frustrating to see that one reason we lose is lack of healers or being outnumbered and then having the data to at least show myself i am not just imagine it
Just barely lose a sc and when looking at the stats it Once Again show us lacking a healer or being one player short compared to order.

But also really close to hit 40 with my Chosen now so will soon change bracket and see how T4 is

[jamees]

When I talk to people pretty much all of them agree that the fun of fighting has decreased over the last years.

Lets gather some input/feedback here. Feel free to answer one or more of these questions:
-> What do you think got worse? Or do you think it got better? Tell as what and why. Keep it short. What got worse and why, maybe short suggestion to improve.
-> What do you think is currently hurting the overall fun? You don't like pulls or stealthers? Tell us.

Keep it short. Please stay on topic.

------
I do the start.

I personally think that there are some "cheesy" game plays that are really hurting the overall fun for me:

1. Fishing for people with pulls. It's such a low risk/high reward strategy that is very easy to pull off and very hard to counter, granting almost a guaranteed kill in most cases. The pull distance for Maras/WLs is just too far. It feels unfair and not fun.

2. Playing golf with people. Tanks with crazy high defenses walking in knocking someone down and punting it into the own lines. Like with pulls it is a low risk / high reward tactic that is again very hard to counter, almost impossible. Again it feels unfair and not fun.

3. Moral drop farming. This I see a lot in orvr by organized warbands. They wait for their morals, pretend to fall back just to overpower them quickly with moral drops. Again a very cheesy play which can be executed almost every minute. For the casual players just wanting to have fun this feels very unfair and not fun because they keep getting killed without being able to kill anything. Works especially well on destro with their fast moral gains, snare prayer from doks and mara aoe kd.

4. Small scale died off with all the overtuned stealthers everywhere. Nothing to add there. Should be obvious.

There is only one point for me that really made the game better than before:

1. I like the new scenario queue system. Works really well and I think it's the best you can get out of that queue system. Fun in scenarios increased due to more equal matches.

Your turn.

It's both, to be fair. When things are fun, I don't mind repeating them. Yet, the game is the least fun in years.

[Inwaves]

New players, seems less folk joining. What's happening to bring in new players? Literally the lifeblood of any game if we don't grow we die.

TL:DR; of the new player experience:

Get to 16.
Get auto-kicked out of WBs for being 16.
Decide to quit.

Y'all see the problem?

It's a MMO, so naturally there will always be some degree of suffer because of lack of knowledge, lack of gear, underlevel, class/spec/role viability etc.

As an actual new player I had a great time, at least by genre standards. T1 was great, 16+ passable to good. Never kicked from wb's, sometimes got picked up as lowlevel healer by roaming small closed parties. Once got flamed in lowtier sc for being bad tho But I picked AM healer, so I can see I got it easier sometimes. Class itself is nice design btw. Recent stealth nerf was a huge QoL imrovement. By now done all dungeons several times, as a pug, including LV, including Ch22 raid. Gone blind, party always guided and explained. Got huge help and guidance from guild.

Now, month after, actually see a great deal of lenience towards new or lowlevel or ungeared or clueless players.

Compare that to WoW. Pity to those who try to get in mid-expansion. Honestly no idea how do you get to start into m+'s as a fresh pug. Can even get flamed for not knowing tryhard skip routes in leveling(!) questline dungeons. Heroic raids are nearly unkillable by pugs from what I remember. BG's - when I played, like 1/3 of players were actual honor farming bots (Honorbuddy ect).

The thing about Warhammer is you cant actually be kicked from RvR, so you are allowed to actually play the legit content of the game, not wait in endless queues for an instance.

Regular MMO experience would be, is that first you level up to "endgame" by doing quest lines in solitude. Can also sign for lowlevel BG, and enjoy broken lowlevel class balance, if it ever procs that is. Then on level cap you read a lot of guides, then suffer through LFG problems, then, well, you try to find a guild, I guess. In RoR you have the bolster, such as it is, we're golden.

[Keula]

One thing that I think is rarely mentioned is that the fun of the game is also decreasing due to the simplification and ease with which everything is now obtained: You level up RR faster, you equip BiS gear without having to make any effort, PVE guarantees you the complete set after 3-4 dungeon repetitions, etc. all those things that have made the game so extremely easy are also what make it less fun.

The need to push yourself to obtain things has been lost, and now it's a one-dimensional game.

And there was effort before? I guess there was a time when there were no invader/royal shards and had to do fort/city for the crests, maybe some argument there, but if you could only obtain royals from city now, ppl would complain, a lot. Same for triumph jewels, Imagine if it stayed ranked only, now that was some real effort needed for sure.
Faster RR idk, I remember speed leveling from 50-70 on my AM because at the time order was taking empty zones/forts at lightning speed and forts used to give max RR rewards, no matter if there was any actual fighting, not much effort in pvdoor.
The 4 run completion pve pity quests are also nothing new they've been a thing forever and I highly doubt any1 wants go back to rng loot. Sure the sentinel jewel used to be... 9? 11? 13? full runs, but that's the only pve thing that needed any "effort".

[Culexus]

One thing that I think is rarely mentioned is that the fun of the game is also decreasing due to the simplification and ease with which everything is now obtained: You level up RR faster, you equip BiS gear without having to make any effort, PVE guarantees you the complete set after 3-4 dungeon repetitions, etc. all those things that have made the game so extremely easy are also what make it less fun.

The need to push yourself to obtain things has been lost, and now it's a one-dimensional game.

Yep, and still players complain that it's too hard.

Can you imagine the meltdowns if the gearing system was the same as it was on live? I never did get those damn Darkpromise boots for my WP!

[kpihuss]

One thing that I think is rarely mentioned is that the fun of the game is also decreasing due to the simplification and ease with which everything is now obtained: You level up RR faster, you equip BiS gear without having to make any effort, PVE guarantees you the complete set after 3-4 dungeon repetitions, etc. all those things that have made the game so extremely easy are also what make it less fun.

The need to push yourself to obtain things has been lost, and now it's a one-dimensional game.

And there was effort before? I guess there was a time when there were no invader/royal shards and had to do fort/city for the crests, maybe some argument there, but if you could only obtain royals from city now, ppl would complain, a lot. Same for triumph jewels, Imagine if it stayed ranked only, now that was some real effort needed for sure.
Faster RR idk, I remember speed leveling from 50-70 on my AM because at the time order was taking empty zones/forts at lightning speed and forts used to give max RR rewards, no matter if there was any actual fighting, not much effort in pvdoor.
The 4 run completion pve pity quests are also nothing new they've been a thing forever and I highly doubt any1 wants go back to rng loot. Sure the sentinel jewel used to be... 9? 11? 13? full runs, but that's the only pve thing that needed any "effort".

Yes, you actually had to put in effort before.

Did you want Sov? Push hard on RVR, win 2 fortress, and then go to the city. Build a proper 24-man, learn your class and your teammates' classes, study builds, and play knowing what you're doing.

Of course, you could still eventually get full Sov by going to city and losing, but it was really difficult. If you wanted to have it, you had to learn how to play.

And the same applied to scenario gear.

In dungeons, I remember my guildmates having to do 17 or 19 runs to get the Sentinel ring, back when you had to do both Crypts and Tunnels, not just Crypts. I remember teaching people the mechanics before going in, setting up calendars so people could sign up, and organizing weekly runs to get the special talismans.

All of that is gone now... You get those talismans in RvR just by following the zerg, without even knowing what you're doing.

And if you wanted the Ranked ring, you had to work incredibly hard to get it. I ended up with 20 Triumphant Insignias that cost me blood, sweat, and tears to earn, and now they're barely worth 2k War Crests.

Yes, the game used to require effort and dedication. Now anyone can be BiS in a month without even knowing what a detaunt is...

All that MMORPG-style-progression fun has been lost, and the game has basically turned into Counter-Strike set in the Warhammer Fantasy universe.

[M0rw47h]

(...)

Getting sov wasn't hard, all you had to do is ask a city logger friend who would phone call you middle of the night, so could log on your 10th alt to join...

Many of us, felt forced to live that way, which was annoying at best

...and oh, we threw whole campaign / stacked on one side to have more cities.

[borc1]

i had to sleep with phone by my ear to wake up to discord notification @ 5am to log on for city. it was **** up

[Hienzwar]

Ahh the late night city raids were something else at times. Trying to get into the right city and good groups facing off was legendary. Best we have now is lots which is great, bring back the world boss and have both sides fight over him- we all want kills not this kite fest simulator.