Cost of +25 talis

[kleinbuchstabe]

Not a great analogy. Using your analogy, you're arguing there shouldn't be dairy farmers and everyone should have to milk their own cows. PvE players who farm dungeons and sell the talismans should be rewarded for doing the thing other people don't want to do. As shocking as it is to some of you, your personal likes and dislikes aren't shared by everyone, some people like running dungeons, maybe the devs like working on dungeons. Why shouldn't they make money selling talismans that other people don't want to farm. Despite most peoples delusional take that apparently all BiS gear is now gated by pve, the vast majority of gearing and progression in this game is based around, and reliant on PvP (as it certainly should be), that doesn't mean it all should be.

You also don't seem to understand the meaning of 'literally'. You are not 'literally' forced to run pve to maintain BiS. You Literally state why in your very next sentence, when you point out you don't have to run pve at all to acquire the new talismans if you don't want to, because you can just buy them.

My analogy was about to prove you wrong, that the BiS gear is "literally" not locked behind PvE content, wich is just no true. You try to twist the truth here, because the possibility to buy it in AH (again: assuming someone sells it), doesnt change the fact, that PvE engagement is required to obtain the token at all.

So what you are saying is, PvE players should be rewarded by PvP players, for playing PvE... Why??? I dont see any logic behind that declaration... We are not playing an economic simulation here, where it would be necessary for various production chains to be interconnected. And as shoking as it might be for you, but my "personal likes" are shared by the vast majority of the players here, what you can see easily here in this and many other threads.

[Akilinus]

Hates pve but their favorite content is running pvdoor and logging out as soon as someone shows up to stop their "pvp".

[Tushi]

Not a great analogy. Using your analogy, you're arguing there shouldn't be dairy farmers and everyone should have to milk their own cows. PvE players who farm dungeons and sell the talismans should be rewarded for doing the thing other people don't want to do. As shocking as it is to some of you, your personal likes and dislikes aren't shared by everyone, some people like running dungeons, maybe the devs like working on dungeons. Why shouldn't they make money selling talismans that other people don't want to farm. Despite most peoples delusional take that apparently all BiS gear is now gated by pve, the vast majority of gearing and progression in this game is based around, and reliant on PvP (as it certainly should be), that doesn't mean it all should be.

You also don't seem to understand the meaning of 'literally'. You are not 'literally' forced to run pve to maintain BiS. You Literally state why in your very next sentence, when you point out you don't have to run pve at all to acquire the new talismans if you don't want to, because you can just buy them.

My analogy was about to prove you wrong, that the BiS gear is "literally" not locked behind PvE content, wich is just no true. You try to twist the truth here, because the possibility to buy it in AH (again: assuming someone sells it), doesnt change the fact, that PvE engagement is required to obtain the token at all.

So what you are saying is, PvE players should be rewarded by PvP players, for playing PvE... Why??? I dont see any logic behind that declaration... We are not playing an economic simulation here, where it would be necessary for various production chains to be interconnected. And as shoking as it might be for you, but my "personal likes" are shared by the vast majority of the players here, what you can see easily here in this and many other threads.

You said "you are forced" into pve, 'you' as an individual are not forced into anything, as you will be able to acquire it through other means if you really don't want to do PvE content. Also, yes people who run the dungeons to generate excess materials, should be paid by those who want the talismans, but who don't want to run the content themselves, that seems pretty logical to me. If you don't want to run dungeons, and you don't want to pay people to supply the thing you would have had to run the dungeon for, then you can do without the basically insignificant boost you would receive.

Vast majority is not all, the vast majority of gear/progression already does come through pvp, which as I said is fitting for a game like this, I don't think it's unreasonable however for some other areas in the game to contribute.

[arturziomas]

Hates pve but their favorite content is running pvdoor and logging out as soon as someone shows up to stop their "pvp".

So +25 talis locked behind dungeon speedruns are a form of karmic punishment for the community for blob meta? You know what I can see that xD

[kleinbuchstabe]

You said "you are forced" into pve, 'you' as an individual are not forced into anything, as you will be able to acquire it through other means if you really don't want to do PvE content. Also, yes people who run the dungeons to generate excess materials, should be paid by those who want the talismans, but who don't want to run the content themselves, that seems pretty logical to me. If you don't want to run dungeons, and you don't want to pay people to supply the thing you would have had to run the dungeon for, then you can do without the basically insignificant boost you would receive.

Vast majority is not all, the vast majority of gear/progression already does come through pvp, which as I said is fitting for a game like this, I don't think it's unreasonable however for some other areas in the game to contribute.

"You" as the average player with pvp preference. But lets leave it at that.
You talk about it like it is allready a given thing (well,maybe it is). But we still discuss here, if it is a good idea at all, to lock BiS items behind PvE content.
Because the idea behind it, is NOT to make PvE players rich now, who are going to farm these tokens! xD The idea behind it, is to make people engage in hardcore PvE content. But probably the majority will tendent to simply skip the unloved content - and just pay the people who like to do it. So instead of a motivation to engage PvE hardcore modes, it will only motivate the players to farm even more gold, to pay the tokens from AH.
And i doubt that this outcoming hits the inentional direction.

[Tushi]

You said "you are forced" into pve, 'you' as an individual are not forced into anything, as you will be able to acquire it through other means if you really don't want to do PvE content. Also, yes people who run the dungeons to generate excess materials, should be paid by those who want the talismans, but who don't want to run the content themselves, that seems pretty logical to me. If you don't want to run dungeons, and you don't want to pay people to supply the thing you would have had to run the dungeon for, then you can do without the basically insignificant boost you would receive.

Vast majority is not all, the vast majority of gear/progression already does come through pvp, which as I said is fitting for a game like this, I don't think it's unreasonable however for some other areas in the game to contribute.

"You" as the average player with pvp preference. But lets leave it at that.
You talk about it like it is allready a given thing (well,maybe it is). But we still discuss here, if it is a good idea at all, to lock BiS items behind PvE content.
Because the idea behind it, is NOT to make PvE players rich now, who are going to farm these tokens! xD The idea behind it, is to make people engage in hardcore PvE content. But probably the majority will tendent to simply skip the unloved content - and just pay the people who like to do it. So instead of a motivation to engage PvE hardcore modes, it will only motivate the players to farm even more gold, to pay the tokens from AH.
And i doubt that this outcoming hits the inentional direction.

I don't remember many instances when they've backtracked on a decision, irregardless of how it's received. So I think it may as well be considered a done deal.

On this particular issue, I don't think locking +25s behind a partial PvE gate is a bad thing. I think 3 runs per tali is certainly a bit much but not that there is an element of "harder" PvE required in general. It is BiS after all. Min Maxed BiS should require you to go a little out of your way to acquire.
Handing everyone BiS on a silver platter for doing the same routine, mindless things you've done a thousand times with no effort is far worse, it's one of the leading reasons why the general quality of gameplay has gone completely down the shitter on this server imo. People don't have to do anything requiring even an inkling of coordination or ability/effort to fully kit out their latest character, and if you suggest something that would require that, they throw a hissy fit. You will still be able to go this route with this proposed implementation, you will just have to wait for people who put in more effort than you to provide you the means. I think that's more than fair.

[wonshot]

..You are the one who decided:

It is clearly a Warcrest sink

and barely any posts beyond your own mention anything about the 'crest sink'. The majority of posts complaining about the cost, are complaining solely because of it having any pve requirement at all.

So here are the words from the roadmap about +25talismans. While it doesnt directly say it will be a warcrest sink, it mentions and talks about warcrests, after the pricereduction of ranked replicas to 2k and therefor freeing up alot of currently used warcrests people have purchased those rings with. Or it will dramatically lessen the total amount of warcrests needed for upcoming characters getting their full BiS by 8k warcrest. The post also talked about this is a long term goal to work on, sure that can be both hardmoding, speedrunning or pvping. But by mentioning the timeperiode as an example of "between RR 80 - 85" that would give more pvp impression as you dont get RPs from speedrunning or hardmoding.

I guess we can leave it at different interpritations.

"New End-game Talismans: We agree that having something to work towards at end-game is nice, so as we remove the end-game grind from these rings, we’ll also be introducing new +25 Talismans for players to work towards. These Talismans will require significant resources to create, including an existing +24 of the same type, and will help us shift from a huge stat jump after 9999 crests into a much more modest +10 total stat gain for players who put in the effort, with many likely getting a +1 here and there as they progress to 80-85. We'll share more news on how players can earn these Talismans soon".

(source the ror roadmap annoucement)

[sanoj93]

I have some thoughts about the talismans...

How about having the 25 talismans being also able to be unslotted and put in and out of the gear you want?
Mby even account bound, so you can change them around for the character and armor you want?