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Changelog 29/11/16

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Saccara
Posts: 10

Re: Changelog 29/11/16

Post#121 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:20 am

- Diminishing Rations is once again zonewide. It is linked to the delayed AAO factor and nothing else. It will multiply the Wounds of affected players by 1 / (1 + AAOFactor * 0.005) and increase the AoE cap of the outnumbered faction.

An example of the Wounds debuffing:

100% AAO -> 1 / (1 + (100 * 0.005)) = 66% Wounds.

did you even considered that a system that related heavy on numbers before and now even more needs also a system which kicks players out of the lakes? especially if a cheat depends on it?
i mean dead people who dont release just to keep the cheat up. how will this system deceide if they wait for a rez or just exploit? what about sc groups who are obviously just in the lake to max their rr and distort the numbers? what will you do about other exploits? for example during a siege... you could easily send everyone out of the lake and let the best wb stomp over the other attackers.


maybe its a generation issue, but i prefer to play totaly CHEAT FREE and to win my fights honestly!

every guild member who is happy now about this should consider one thing... at a specific point (if you are ambitious) you WANT to fight agains way more people to test your own strenght and tactics or just for fun.
also, are you really want to tell you children one day how your guild throwed four WBs out of praag with a cheat? it that the epic rvr moment you want to remember? :D
well, i guess not... except your are one of the guys who ruins every shooter with aimbots and be happy about a kill. this cheats are exact the same.


really aza, there are way more elegant ways to deal with all this. just putting more and more dmg and targets into the game has nothing to do with balancing or designing. sure, i dont know if there is massiv change a in the pipeline. but for the moment i looks like this new system already hits his limits.


a example for a more elegant and more "realistic" way (which i also not prefer)?

why not introduce some "demoralized" technic? starting at 100 aao, every time you get killed by a underdog you get a debuff (0,25% wounds + 0,25% damage/heal/tank reduction). every bo capped by the underdog creates the same effect for everyone in the zone. defending a keep creates a even highter debuff for everyone.
"your char is impressed by the underdogs skill and efford and so gets more and more demoralized." the higher the aao is, the more you are impressed if they do something good and the higher the debuff is. sure, this debuff has to decrease over time. maybe one tick every 5 mins or something.

this way the underdog still needs to do something instead of just getting a cheat. also the whole system fits better into the story.

the underdog can deceide if they want to hurt every enemy (BO), or tries to weaken smaller groups/solo players first. over time they can demoralize more and more people and increase their chance with fighting/gameplay, even if they are outnumbered. also the bigger force have to play some more carefully without loosing every advantage at the beginning.
and yes, if they can bring numbers or if one side just dont want to defend, then they deserve this advantage! another point why this is important is, that this way you cannot exploit someones WB days. if you know they come, just leave the zone and send a strong group/wb with the cheat do stop them. effort should matter, not a aimbot.



i you ask me, i still prefer more tactical freedom instead of playing around with base stats.
lets pick the saturday (KV) for example, where i have to agree with numenon and haojun. these was the the gamechanging moment..


it was not the swarm who defeated you there, it was your own system!

and to be honest, you just sit in your wc and didnt even try to use a pve route help at the keep or to take a bo.
is this the zergs fault? no! for acting like this you want a dmg buff? success without effort? dont think this is a good thing.

but lets look at the system and your opportunities...

bringing back a resource -> with luck, but that only delays the attack a little bit
ranking a keep fast enough -> impossible
funneling with rank 0 -> impossible
oil -> thanks to the range increase and the door changes, it only hits 4 tanks -> useless
defending the inner keep from oil spot -> thanks to cannons and range increase, nearly impossible
kill the people in front of the inner -> maybe, but not at that day
defend the bottom floor or fight at the lord -> maybe, but not at that day
cannons -> at the keep maybe, at the wc, no way. but after 15 shots its over (good patch btw.)


thats what i tried to point out in the other post. the lack of tactical freedom/space creates a very close gap between aao and a unplayable situation. this also creates alot of patt situations. i know we dont switch back, but if you look at just ONE of the possibilies from the old system (15min version) shows my point...


send a 6 mann to dc, a 6 mann to gj and the main force to ice. all from pve. burn it at the same time and immediately let the gj guys run to ice. no one cares about gj and if the pugs at the keep dont react fast enough, you get dc. ice will be lost, cause we will wipe you there BUT if you can hold it long enough you also get this. gj is already a safe bet. respawn at wc and attack the bo close to it. now, keep attack is over and you bought some time. to attract more people or to choose another tactic.

the possibilites at this point are huge and this is just one way to beat/controll/delay us with way lower numbers. sure, its hard and needs coordination, but at least you have options left. whatever you did and will do now... its done by GAMEPLAY and NOT by a CHEAT


more freedom and space means more opportunities and numbers didnt matter that much anymore. this widens the gap between players and unplayable situations like we see it on saturday. i think more elegant and subtil tweaks are way better than such a massiv, gamebreaking cheat. its not always about killing the enemy... tactic, timeplay and splitting forces also important aspects.


before you tell me this is bullshit, again. we did things like this on live all the time. just one example from this server here... we managed to to hold a zone (eteaine - both keeps lost) for hours with 400% aao until the reinforcement arrives. remember norkalli? ;). we took the zone back at the end and had a lot of rr and fun that night.

with the current system you couldnt even delay the attack a few minutes. thats not zerg issue, this is one of the design flaws i tried to pointing out i my other post. just looking at numbers is also the wrong aspect because (easy spoken) a organized wb counts as two pug wbs. in a 3:1 situation with this cheat, they guild wb will bomb them out of the zone...

sure, in this example everything was perfect, but again... at somepoint a side has to win. making it harder and harder to play at eu primetime will cause alot of anger if cities are back in.

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Glorian
Posts: 5004

Re: Changelog 29/11/16

Post#122 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:44 am

A wound buff or debuff is not a cheat.

It is a handicap.
The less numbered side gets a bonus to be more competitive and play on. And not throw the mouse away and log off.

A handicap is in golf that the better player has at every hole a basic numbers of hits on the sheet that he haven't made. Meaning the less good player have one or more extra strikes for the hole.

Your approach is not to give the lesser player the handicap but tell him to play better, train more and use voicecoms. And then crush him.

And that one WB should leave the rvr zone so that the other one can get kill the enemy better is also not true.
Having more players is still better than having less players.

The wound debuff maybe to high. Or it should be converted into a wound buff for the underdog, but it is not a cheat.

Daknallbomb
Posts: 1781

Re: Changelog 29/11/16

Post#123 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:07 am

Hmmm issit a bug that getn smarter do sometimes nearly no dmg ? at tooltim it should make more dmg like my other dot . some ideas ?
Tinkabell 40/41 Magus Whaagit 40/41 SH Whaagot 40/54 BO Daknallfrosch 40/72shammy

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Natherul
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Re: Changelog 29/11/16

Post#124 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:49 am

Daknallbomb wrote:Hmmm issit a bug that getn smarter do sometimes nearly no dmg ? at tooltim it should make more dmg like my other dot . some ideas ?
This is not directly related to this patch and tooltips cannot be updated at this point, so any changes wont be shown in tooltips.

If you feel something is a bug in the game use the bugtracker found in the top of the website.

Daknallbomb
Posts: 1781

Re: Changelog 29/11/16

Post#125 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:50 am

just thinked cause the getn smartet dot makes 85 dmg crits ;D and the standart dot with lower tooltip dmg make 500 crits
Tinkabell 40/41 Magus Whaagit 40/41 SH Whaagot 40/54 BO Daknallfrosch 40/72shammy

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Nabaro
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Re: Changelog 29/11/16

Post#126 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:17 am

Daknallbomb wrote:just thinked cause the getn smartet dot makes 85 dmg crits ;D and the standart dot with lower tooltip dmg make 500 crits
with healing points GS dot make normal dmg - like LL dot. Maybe this skill have no intelligence scale with dmg points? Seems like bug. I cant check right now.
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Vandoles
Posts: 249

Re: Changelog 29/11/16

Post#127 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:00 pm

After reading through this whole thread, I've come to a conclusion - the devs could REALLY use a community (or some such) adviser. A dude from order and a dude from destro who sifts through these forums and the balance forums, follows chats in-game and plays regularly enough to deal with the community. We've reached the point where there's so much whining, bitching and so many players who try to influence balance by pushing their idea, someone needs to deal with the community to prevent the devs from having to work in such a horrible environment. I'm not talking community manager here, but rather someone who deals with the politics side, while devs deal with the dev side.

Would make focusing on actual balance issues and how to solve them a hell of a lot easier on you folks, I think. I mean, it's starting to look to me that you're working in a pretty bad environment on this server and I don't think anyone, even those who annoy you, want to distract you from the great work you've been doing. But it seems to be happening anyway.

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Natherul
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Re: Changelog 29/11/16

Post#128 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:33 pm

Vandoles wrote:After reading through this whole thread, I've come to a conclusion - the devs could REALLY use a community (or some such) adviser. A dude from order and a dude from destro who sifts through these forums and the balance forums, follows chats in-game and plays regularly enough to deal with the community. We've reached the point where there's so much whining, bitching and so many players who try to influence balance by pushing their idea, someone needs to deal with the community to prevent the devs from having to work in such a horrible environment. I'm not talking community manager here, but rather someone who deals with the politics side, while devs deal with the dev side.

Would make focusing on actual balance issues and how to solve them a hell of a lot easier on you folks, I think. I mean, it's starting to look to me that you're working in a pretty bad environment on this server and I don't think anyone, even those who annoy you, want to distract you from the great work you've been doing. But it seems to be happening anyway.
This was the intent of the community manager role but due to different things I won't go into detail of, it has not happened.

Either way, that discussion is really off topic so let's not have it in a changelog

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Changelog 29/11/16

Post#129 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:45 pm

Can confirm that the new Shaman DoT doesn't seem to be affected by int. Hitting very low.
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Natherul
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Re: Changelog 29/11/16

Post#130 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:47 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:Can confirm that the new Shaman DoT doesn't seem to be affected by int. Hitting very low.
Bugtracker it please :P

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