Melee/Assault SW

[daniilpb]

Are you assuming dest team didn’t stack ini like crazy for this event?

If I want to counter sorc, I stack disrupt, crit reduction and toughness. If I want to counter Mara, I stack armor, wounds and crit reduction. Same goes to WE but it's about wounds and toughness. Easy as that. Rock–paper–scissors
So why couldn't they stack something to counter SW+SM combo? Is this illegal?

[Scrilian]

Mountain Spirit used to stack on top of any armor buff

This is not true. Tested it on various occasions through-out the live gamespan up until the rr100 patch. Never stacked with anything. Only things ever to stack in that regard were the Sprout and 1k1.

[AxelF]

If I want to counter sorc, I stack disrupt, crit reduction and toughness. If I want to counter Mara, I stack armor, wounds and crit reduction. Same goes to WE but it's about wounds and toughness. Easy as that. Rock–paper–scissors
So why couldn't they stack something to counter SW+SM combo? Is this illegal?

So what you're saying is you do what 99.9% of the server, order or destro do, which is dump rr into Deft Defender and crit reduction, and then slot a mix of armour, toughness and wounds talis depending on class and gear.

Now rip out all of your talis and replace them with ini talis due to one op tactic on one class, and see how much armour, toughness and wounds you lose to combat that one op tactic.

That's what one dev has suggested everyone in one realm do.

Sounds reasonable doesn't it...

[Bozzax]

Are you assuming dest team didn’t stack ini like crazy for this event?

If I want to counter sorc, I stack disrupt, crit reduction and toughness. If I want to counter Mara, I stack armor, wounds and crit reduction. Same goes to WE but it's about wounds and toughness. Easy as that. Rock–paper–scissors
So why couldn't they stack something to counter SW+SM combo? Is this illegal?

Yet all your listed counters yield liniear return while neglecting ini has exponential negative effect and enables a broken on crit meta

[daniilpb]

If I want to counter sorc, I stack disrupt, crit reduction and toughness. If I want to counter Mara, I stack armor, wounds and crit reduction. Same goes to WE but it's about wounds and toughness. Easy as that. Rock–paper–scissors
So why couldn't they stack something to counter SW+SM combo? Is this illegal?

So what you're saying is you do what 99.9% of the server, order or destro do, which is dump rr into Deft Defender and crit reduction, and then slot a mix of armour, toughness and wounds talis depending on class and gear.

Now rip out all of your talis and replace them with ini talis due to one op tactic on one class, and see how much armour, toughness and wounds you lose to combat that one op tactic.

That's what one dev has suggested everyone in one realm do.

Sounds reasonable doesn't it...

Just RR into initiative is enough to get rid of more than a half of this debuff. And maybe 1-2 tallies just for extra safety if you want

[Bozzax]

Spoiler:

Do the math for melee dok with 123 base ini and dom. A class that needs str, ws and crits to melee heal/dps (not to mention mandatory 20 pts in dodge disrupt)

Ponder, can multiple WS stack (from multiple SW)? (Not sure myself)

Nvm pointless to go on

[Druin]

Well, if you stack Initiative to 300 and go full FS your chance to be crit is still around 5% after only the 180 debuff SW can do on his own.

[Aurandilaz]

Meh, I have a far easier solution how to avoid getting 100% incoming critical chance.
Play Order. Lul. It's way easier to just switch side, calm down, wait until next balance changes and hope that eventually something changes. Why bang your head against solid wall of rock when you can walk around it? Who knows, maybe they even end up giving Destro stackable Init debuffs so Sorcs too can end up with 170% crit rates.
It's a game, if you find yourself outcritted and outdebuffed on one side because state of balance, switch sides.

[AxelF]

If I want to counter sorc, I stack disrupt, crit reduction and toughness. If I want to counter Mara, I stack armor, wounds and crit reduction. Same goes to WE but it's about wounds and toughness. Easy as that. Rock–paper–scissors
So why couldn't they stack something to counter SW+SM combo? Is this illegal?

So what you're saying is you do what 99.9% of the server, order or destro do, which is dump rr into Deft Defender and crit reduction, and then slot a mix of armour, toughness and wounds talis depending on class and gear.

Now rip out all of your talis and replace them with ini talis due to one op tactic on one class, and see how much armour, toughness and wounds you lose to combat that one op tactic.

That's what one dev has suggested everyone in one realm do.

Sounds reasonable doesn't it...

Just RR into initiative is enough to get rid of more than a half of this debuff. And maybe 1-2 tallies just for extra safety if you want

And to dump rr into full initiative you either lose all of your dodge and disrupt chance, or you lose futile strikes which has a massively superior effect on chance to be crit without this cheese stacking debuff...

The point that is being repeatedly made here is not that there is no counter to it, it's well accepted that there is; it's that in order to counter this one tactic from one class you essentially need to give up all your defense. No deft defender? BW will blow you up in a couple, of rotations, no futile strikes? You'll be crit 50 or 60% of the time even when not debuffed.

There really is no reasonable justification to this other than "Don't take my op toy away..."

[AxelF]

Well, if you stack Initiative to 300 and go full FS your chance to be crit is still around 5% after only the 180 debuff SW can do on his own.

And as a class with 180ish base ini and 0 ini from Conq gear stacking ini to 300 is done how? 6 x 20/22 ini talismans.

So that's zero armour/toughness/wounds talis in a meta where they offer far and away the best value for an effective defense, and no str/ini/bs talis so your dps will be laughable.

Oh and only applies to one side in a 2 sided game. Excellent!

All this to counter one over performing tactic on one single class. If only there were a more sensible way of balancing this...