AM/Shammy Healing

[Nameless]

It seems like the same things happen over and over again.

People look at the current state of the game, see that every hybrid failed, and believe that making them work is somehow impossible and we have to have a game full of absolute pure classes. To point out how flawed one of the arguments being used here is, you're talking about how action economy for the class doesn't really allow it to play as a hybrid. So link benefits related to action / time economy into the mechanic as well, when you're twisting it. AP cost and cast time reductions. The aim being to allow a twisted AM or Shaman to maintain higher output in heals while it attempts to use its mechanic than it otherwise would be able to.

It'd be nice if when pointing out flaws, solutions could be proposed at the same time.

Hybrids are very difficult to balance. And many times, the hybrids usually break the game.

I like what swtor ultimately did. Apparently copied from wow but I can't confirm (didn't play wow). Ultimately, they scrapped the three trees altogether and made each tree a "discipline". You were locked into a specific tree and only that tree. This allowed any toon (WP/DOK for example) to clearly and easily be identified as either DPS or Heals. Matchmaking was then easy to enforce as well... because your discpline ensured that you weren't a heal archetype toon in a match intended to fill a heal slot and were infact dps. By restricting builds to specific trees - you were identified very specifically to DPS or Heals.

Hybrids create the opportunity for all of this to create conflict. Imho.

the thing is that here Aza speak about hybrids doing more than one role at one given time... Imo that wont work and it is impossible hard to balance and make it usefull. Hybrids imo should got the chance to do more than one role but only when speced and build for that role which means other role is highly lacking at that time. That was the balancing path of WAR after they published the game and realized that their ideas on paper are impossible to do

[Penril]

I have confidence that Lifetap healers can work in WAR. It will require a lot of work and will involve a LOT of tears from several players. But i'd rather try to fix an interesting concept than just give up and say "screw this, hybrids will never work, let's leave them like they are".

This is the time to make bold changes to Lifetap mechanics, ridiculous as they might sound. And test those changes in RvR, SCs, big and small scale. If they dont work, we change them and test again. And again. And again. Until we find something that works.

[Nekkma]

Fixing Da green and Vaul does not neccessary imply changing the way the entire class plays. Healing shaman is the most fun class I have ever played in any MMO. From a playstyle perspective it is close to perfect. Adjustments should focus on performance without changing the way it plays. At least that is my view.

[Azarael]

Mm.

I've been here before and trying to force the issue didn't work. If people want a pure healbot, and the class currently performs as a pure healbot, albeit a weak one... there are obviously going to be a lot of people who want to see buffs to healbotting.

If that is the case and you want this class to be pure, the following have to be accepted:

1) Using the DPS tree as the primary one must be viable. This means you're going to have to accept DPS AM/Shaman fitting in a DPS slot. I won't see a version of the class where half the skills are wasted.

2) A combination of two trees must also be viable. Because both of the non-healing trees involve attacking, there is absolutely no way to get around having to attack in some form. The good news is that lifetaps deal with the action economy problem by incorporating a healing action and a damage action in the same cast.

The problem with this, as ever, is that any attempt to make heal AM/Shaman viable through increasing the power of the lifetap tree will bring opposition from people who want to healbot it.

Something else I'd like to add is that I would rather compromise than concede outright. That means I'd like to create an ability for the class which shifts the way the mechanic performs, with a long cooldown. I don't expect everyone to believe in what I'm saying... but equally, I expect to be allowed to to experiment, and possibly to fail in doing so, by myself, just as others will be allowed to have their vision of the class. If it can't be made to work, then I will happily drop it.

It may be that that won't be necessary, because a mechanic linked strongly to the performance of the lifetaps would allow AM/Shaman to deal damage without compromising on their heals and fulfill a little of the original intent. We will see.

[roadkillrobin]

Fixing Da green and Vaul does not neccessary imply changing the way the entire class plays. Healing shaman is the most fun class I have ever played in any MMO. From a playstyle perspective it is close to perfect. Adjustments should focus on performance without changing the way it plays. At least that is my view.

Well atm it's not wanted in any groups coz the other choise are just better. This is the core problem atm.
Nomather how it plays. Or how fun it is. People wanna win. It's a PVP game after all.
The changes of the class needs to make it more reilible at keep your group up or bring something something to the group that no other class currently have. AM have the exact same issue.
I'll post my sollutions again so i just don't point our the problem.

1: Groupheal and Big heal. The current ones casts to slow, and with no in between group heals like other classes have means that any interupts, setbacks or cast time increase just rapes your team. Solution: Make the groupheal heal 3 times over 2,5sec cast instead of 1 at the end.

2: WP/DoK brings AP to team on heal, very good reiiable heals due to short cast times and good dmg mitigration. RP/Zealot Brings Crit Reduction for team. Relible heals due to good AP Management, Good procs and AP regeneration. AM/Shamans brings nothing but heals Heals and a snare pool. Solution: Give them a tactic that has chance to proc cast time reduction of 1sec on direct heal, Caster will love this buff. Change the current Ressistance Buff to a +5% Parry/Dodge/Disrupt buff.

[Jaycub]

@Az

1 will never happen because DPS AM/Shamanwon't ever be a better pure dps than bw/sw

Same problem with DPS AM atm with them refusing to heal, I see DPS AM's putting out like 4k total healing in an SC often, while im doing more dps than them on top of doing over 50k healing usually which helps a good bit. People on both sides of the equation are refusing to properly use the mechanic or embrace their hybridness.

I don't like the idea of creating an ability which is just a ripoff of the RP/Zealot mechanic, unless im understanding you wrong. DPS AM/Shaman should be specializing in lifetaps and getting the most out of them, while healing AM should be getting something out of the mechanic that isn't just "oh well when I have a free GCD ill throw out a lifetap for giggles then get back to group heal spam" and it should be something that is effective and not just laughed at by a group cleansing DoK or again ending up being such a minor damage output that it's not worth using.

[Azarael]

I don't like the idea of creating an ability which is just a ripoff of the RP/Zealot mechanic, unless im understanding you wrong.

You're understanding me wrong. The mechanic is the first thing to resolve in working out how this class should progress. What I would be asking for is the ability to switch to my vision of the mechanic for personal testing, either via a command or via an actual ability, while leaving the default whatever is decided here.

1 will never happen because DPS AM/Shamanwon't ever be a better pure dps than bw/sw

Subtly, this was the point.

[roadkillrobin]

2) A combination of two trees must also be viable. Because both of the non-healing trees involve attacking, there is absolutely no way to get around having to attack in some form. The good news is that lifetaps deal with the action economy problem by incorporating a healing action and a damage action in the same cast.

I have a solution for this. Actually Mythic had a sullution to this if you go back to when game was released.
Vaul and Da Green were never about Lifetaps. They were originally about Debuffs and Buffs. Put essential Buffs and Debuffs in this tree and it works. Make Ballance/Mork/Gork cast these buffs quicker and for less AP depending on mechanic. I'm talking about Debuffs/Buffs that really mathers now. Not like 120 str or something like that. Maybe this is were Shatter Limbs/Bad Gas really bellongs for example?

[bloodi]

The debuff idea didnt work because it was mostly based around stats.

Who would get an am for stat debuffs when a sm/kobts does it naturally while doing everything else.

[Jaycub]

I don't like the idea of creating an ability which is just a ripoff of the RP/Zealot mechanic, unless im understanding you wrong.

You're understanding me wrong. The mechanic is the first thing to resolve in working out how this class should progress. What I would be asking for is the ability to switch to my vision of the mechanic for personal testing, either via a command or via an actual ability, while leaving the default whatever is decided here.

Experimental patch when :^)