Changelog 29/11/16

[porkstar]

[General]

- Melee attacks directed at a ranged Squig will ignore the Z axis.

So to understand, if a melee is within 5ft on the X/Y axes, the melee could be 40ft away on the Z axis and hit the pet? So a melee could be 40ft above my pet and hit it? Maybe I'm confused

I don't know if you're aware but there is a bug where you'd be standing in front of a squig but be unable to attack him, I'm guessing it was a display bug and the squig is displaying as being on the ground while flying in the air/being under ground (so you're unable to hit him). This would bypass the need for a fix that is probably a lot more complicated or impossible without client control.

That's just my guess.

Ahh I see. I only play ranged classes because I can get free auto attacks through terrain.

[flintboth]

Spoiler:

"yer weaklin" :'(
I m feel like naked without, ohhhhh....
I don't want a new dps abiliti...
GZ GZ, it's not a old school player whine, no no no.
Nice patch, nice patch master.
Ohhhhhh............
Show me a darkness hole, will go for ever

Not constructive, warning given. Torque.

[Teefz]

As much as I like the change and hate SHs, reading what the sensible SH players have to say I can't help but feel that this change was too big of a nerf. I agree with Aza's assesment of Spiked Squig being a skirmishing tool, tied to the appropriate stance, having appropriate range. But is a wounds debuff really needed when accompanied with the range/damage change?

If the counter-play of killing the squig is here to stay (in the form of a wounds nerf), could perhaps the squig being killed be less punishing? Would mirroring the summoning to the WL lion summoning be too much (15 sec cd on a squig getting killed and being able to do it while moving)? I never understood why SHs have the most punishing pet resummon spell in the whole game.

Again voice of reason AND NOT from a SH player. Thank you for noticing the problem and acknowledging this change as a massive nerf. I dont mind dmg nerf or the range one (it WAS needed). But 2k hp on a pet + 30s cooldown will kill this class (and for sure the quick shooting path).

As mentioned in my previous post the DPS nerf is justified and it is already noticeable that the Spiked Squig does significantly less dmg. The problem now for Squig Herder's and their Spiked Squig is not so much the wounds debuff, it is the range decrease by far. While it is nice that Spiked then got more wounds, it still does not solve the issues, the range decrease adds. With the recent range changes to magi/engi and their pets, Spiked does not stand a chance in the open battlefield - only as a midrange body guard, that doesn't pack the same powerful punch pre DPS nerf. Losing that particular pet **** up the Squig Herder and instantly puts them on the backfoot. Yes you can use other pets, but the MAIN issue here is the fact that you lose your stance. Pet is irrelevant at this point and time with this damage. And now you risk losing your stance even easier due to the fact Spiked Squig has to bounce nearly halfway across the open battlefield just to reach the same enemy the Squig Herder can reach? - Honestly I think it is way too excessive and will only end up pushing more people away from the class.

[Marsares]

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the spiked squig have 85% of hit points for a ranged pet, vis-à-vis 80% of hit points for a WL melee pet (with comparable armour and resistances)?

Does the spiked squig not have to travel less distance as it has 65ft range than a melee WL pet which has 5ft range?

Can the SH not summon other versions of his squig, whilst the WL only has one pet, and thus is the 30s vs 15s CD on pet summoning not justified?

Talk about being put on the back foot when a good chunk of your damage (e.g. AA haste and +crit tactics) are dependant on your WL pet, plus nearly all your CC, and you can't re-summon another version. Every mechanic should have a draw-back, with pet classes that should be that their pets can get killed if not managed correctly.

Yes, I know we should not compare class mirrors - and so shouldn't class issues be discussed outside the class balance forum - but the SH still has it good compared to, for example, a WL and even a SW.

[Bowme]

As much as I like the change and hate SHs, reading what the sensible SH players have to say I can't help but feel that this change was too big of a nerf. I agree with Aza's assesment of Spiked Squig being a skirmishing tool, tied to the appropriate stance, having appropriate range. But is a wounds debuff really needed when accompanied with the range/damage change?

If the counter-play of killing the squig is here to stay (in the form of a wounds nerf), could perhaps the squig being killed be less punishing? Would mirroring the summoning to the WL lion summoning be too much (15 sec cd on a squig getting killed and being able to do it while moving)? I never understood why SHs have the most punishing pet resummon spell in the whole game.

Again voice of reason AND NOT from a SH player. Thank you for noticing the problem and acknowledging this change as a massive nerf. I dont mind dmg nerf or the range one (it WAS needed). But 2k hp on a pet + 30s cooldown will kill this class (and for sure the quick shooting path).

As mentioned in my previous post the DPS nerf is justified and it is already noticeable that the Spiked Squig does significantly less dmg. The problem now for Squig Herder's and their Spiked Squig is not so much the wounds debuff, it is the range decrease by far. While it is nice that Spiked then got more wounds, it still does not solve the issues, the range decrease adds. With the recent range changes to magi/engi and their pets, Spiked does not stand a chance in the open battlefield - only as a midrange body guard, that doesn't pack the same powerful punch pre DPS nerf. Losing that particular pet **** up the Squig Herder and instantly puts them on the backfoot. Yes you can use other pets, but the MAIN issue here is the fact that you lose your stance. Pet is irrelevant at this point and time with this damage. And now you risk losing your stance even easier due to the fact Spiked Squig has to bounce nearly halfway across the open battlefield just to reach the same enemy the Squig Herder can reach? - Honestly I think it is way too excessive and will only end up pushing more people away from the class.

I must agree here. Spiked Squig does noticeably less damage and it's a good change (being able to kill lowbie cloth and light armored enemies using pet was wrong). Was the dmg nerf too high - I can't say yet. Need time to battle-test it. BUT since Spikey is strictly tied to Quick Shooting (skirmish) stance it would be wise to take under consideration making SWDW affect Spikey's range - because of all the reasons Teefz has mentioned.

@Marsares and all the others using argument that Herder can just summon another squig. Spiked Squig is tied to QS (the most popular and viable stance for this class at the moment) - switching to any other squig takes away most of the core abilities and bonuses SH needs to be succesfull in that path (the mobility skirmish path). Like some1 posted earlier - pet classes are a little more complicated than non-pet ones - just a bit harder to operate. Decreasing Spiked Squig range is not only a nerf to the pet but also to the path itself. SH looses it's stance - it's a MAJOR problem.

Mar please don't write that SH has it good compared to SW - nobody can take away SW stance and the bonuses and abilities connected with it. He is in full control.

And yes - from the screenshots I've seen the WL pet dmg nerf seems to be a bit too high. I think in case of both our classes it's not only the pet that got nerfed. The paths we spec also got a big hit.

[geraldtarrant]

[Combat and Careers]

Shaman

- Gained the DoT and Intelligence steal "Get'n Smarter" in place of "Yer a Weaklin'" at Rank 30.

This is totaly awesome.
I feel bit sorry for Yer a Weaklin, becouse it was kinda usefull while kiting, but getting 3rd dot is what shamans missed for all those years.

[blaqwar]

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the spiked squig have 85% of hit points for a ranged pet, vis-à-vis 80% of hit points for a WL melee pet (with comparable armour and resistances)?

Does the spiked squig not have to travel less distance as it has 65ft range than a melee WL pet which has 5ft range?

Can the SH not summon other versions of his squig, whilst the WL only has one pet, and thus is the 30s vs 15s CD on pet summoning not justified?

Talk about being put on the back foot when a good chunk of your damage (e.g. AA haste and +crit tactics) are dependant on your WL pet, plus nearly all your CC, and you can't re-summon another version. Every mechanic should have a draw-back, with pet classes that should be that their pets can get killed if not managed correctly.

Yes, I know we should not compare class mirrors - and so shouldn't class issues be discussed outside the class balance forum - but the SH still has it good compared to, for example, a WL and even a SW.

Marsares you're comparing apples to oranges again. WL and SH and their pets are played completely differently and have completely different roles on the battlefield. I'd say that the fact that you're comparing a RDPS and a MDPS and struggling with it, while making little sense to others - me at the very least, signifies that you're desparate to compare mirrors in an attempt to look at the changes objectively. But the problem is you can't, SH and WL aren't mirrors and this game isn't balanced around single careers (as you point out). So why are you even attempting?

To be able to understand what the changes accomplished you'd need to objectively look at the whole picture, what a SH's role is, how it accomplishes it while dealing with obstacles other players present and what the patch has changed within those constraints.

White Lions have their share of problems, I realise that and I'd like to see those resolved too. But how (the pets of) the two careers compare in a vacuum is completely irrelevant.

[NectaneboII]

Spoiler:

38% vs 62% as we speak .
But hey , its an "organized" ...thing . Right ?

Non constructive post, stop it - Natherul

[Ori]

Spoiler:

change range = total bs

goodbye squiggy, until better times

Last edit without official warning in this topic, dont post unless you have constructive criticism to add - Natherul

[Bowme]

change range = total bs

goodbye squiggy, until better times

I wish Squig Herders who come here presented arguments. That would help so much more.
Once again, I must strongly agree with Teefz and his position on the Spikey range nerf. The big problem was squigs alone were able to kill or drop to almost 0 hp cloth and light armored lowbie classes. That is not the case anymore.
Aza since you understand and admit that Spiked Squig is tied to and completes QS path it would make sense that SWDW tactic affected the little bugger. Herders specced in other paths would still have shorter range on Spikey and those who commit to QS would take full advantage from it. The main problem from very begining was the dmg.
Teefz in his previous posts presented some valid arguments. It's worth looking into since Herder at the moment has only two viable working paths (personally I would say it's only QS though). Rest needs some work sooner or later - so let's not nerf the only properly working and viable path. Doing so could result in ppl stop playing or choosing the class altogether. I don't think it's a desired outcome. And Herder is hard to play already (especially for new players).
I may not know much about other classes but I know Herders. Been playing one since 2008 just like Teefz and a few other veterans here.