Overarching balance changes

[Lileldys]

What if group cleanse was made a core healer archetype tactic?

I think its faster to just remove magus/engineer from the game if we are going for that route.

Group cleanse is just no-brain spam on WP/DOK, you are just generally bound to get rid of something useful. Cleansing out 6 people instead of 1 for a tactic slot and no cost increase on the skill is silly, considering RP/Zealot have to pay an extra 15ap(40apTotal) for a no cooldown cleanse and it still not being "better". Spamming cleanse with no cooldown provides 0 healing. Useful against a sorc rotation or SH dots, but someone getting smashed in by a marauder needs those heals over someone sitting there spamming cleanse.

[peterthepan3]

Good points from everyone. Outgoing heal debuff..nice.

[Jaycub]

Good points from everyone. Outgoing heal debuff..nice.

dunno if you are being sarcastic, but the game lacks any ranged outgoing healdebuffs unless you count the 30ft range ones on WH/WE. Having an outgoing healdebuff tied to a DoT which required the healer to cleanse it for it to take effect could bring magus/engineer up on the scale a lot in terms of 6v6/small scale potential. As well as address the complaint of "brainless cleanse spam".

it's just a thought anyways.

[roadkillrobin]

Good points from everyone. Outgoing heal debuff..nice.

dunno if you are being sarcastic, but the game lacks any ranged outgoing healdebuffs unless you count the 30ft range ones on WH/WE. Having an outgoing healdebuff tied to a DoT which required the healer to cleanse it for it to take effect could bring magus/engineer up on the scale a lot in terms of 6v6/small scale potential.

it's just a thought anyways.

If i rememver correctly SW used to have a ranged outgoin healdebuff with VoN up on Fell of the Weak.

[peterthepan3]

No I was being genuine! Sounds cool, and would be an interesting style of gameplay: russian roulette.

Do you remember Curses from wotlk? Curse of Doom in particular?

[Jaycub]

I stopped playing near the end of TBC, but it is always fun to talk about adapting abilities/skills from other games. MOBAS in particular are a treasure trove I think.

[bloodi]

Do you remember Curses from wotlk? Curse of Doom in particular?

Why would i? It was the worthless one.

http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=47867

[georgehabadasher]

There's a lot of good (and some pretty bad) ideas in this thread, but I'd like to make two suggestions.

1) There's a lot of talk about 6v6, but 6v6 fights are only a small minority of the PvP in the game, and an equally small percentage of players play in elite 6-man groups. Ideal and controlled 6v6 situations should not be the focus of archetype balance.

2) In the context of the discussion a lot of people seem to want to nerf DOK/WP instead of buffing the other healers because of concerns about power creep. I think that's a mistake. Damage and healing are in a pretty good place right now, and nerfing WP/DOK wouldn't suddenly make AMs more viable as a healer. All of its weaknesses would still be there. Buffing cloth healers (as long as they're not overbuffed) won't lead to power creep because groups are still limited to two healers.

With all that said, personally I'd rather see developers focused on continuing to develop the RvR system and finish old content. When that's mostly completed it might be time to revisit class balance.

[Jaycub]

I dunno if it's been posted in this thread, but most of us wan't balance from 6v6, to 12v12 (scenarios), and large scale wb v wb fighting.

Magus as an example, is in a very good spot in large scale fighting, at keeps and at choke points or battle objectives. But it's place in 12v12 is extremely limited, and nonexistent in 6v6.

6v6 viability is not only something that extends to hardcore premades duking it out in caledor woods, ORvR is not only fought at keep with zergs, but also small fighting to cut off supply lines, and groups ninja BO's etc...

I don't think anyone actually wants the game to revolve around 6v6, we just want to be able to bring a class to all aspects of WAR and play a viable role in each.

[roadkillrobin]

There's a lot of good (and some pretty bad) ideas in this thread, but I'd like to make two suggestions.

1) There's a lot of talk about 6v6, but 6v6 fights are only a small minority of the PvP in the game, and an equally small percentage of players play in elite 6-man groups. Ideal and controlled 6v6 situations should not be the focus of archetype balance.

2) In the context of the discussion a lot of people seem to want to nerf DOK/WP instead of buffing the other healers because of concerns about power creep. I think that's a mistake. Damage and healing are in a pretty good place right now, and nerfing WP/DOK wouldn't suddenly make AMs more viable as a healer. All of its weaknesses would still be there. Buffing cloth healers (as long as they're not overbuffed) won't lead to power creep because groups are still limited to two healers.

With all that said, personally I'd rather see developers focused on continuing to develop the RvR system and finish old content. When that's mostly completed it might be time to revisit class balance.

2: I think they need to do both tbh. As you mention just nerfing the WP/DoK means TTK in the game gonna be alot shorter and isn't gonna fix anything it will just be a boost for dps classes. The hard part is were to cut from WP/DoK and were to boost for the other healers.