Stop this keep trading please

[backrow]

a simple lock would do. some sort of a timer. it does get ridic at times.

[Jaycub]

Since all I have done is shitpost so far I will try to put together a decently well thought out post that is on top topic.

Keep trading is going on right now mostly because of one thing, experience. Aside from getting powerleveled by way of gold or being in a guild kind enough to do it for you, the easiest way to level is from 1-20/26 is just joining the pug wb and constantly flipping keeps. The xp is not as good as farming rats even solo, but the main thing is you can completely turn off your brain or give your attention to something else. A movie/twitch stream on another monitor, shitposting in advice chat etc...

Everyone wants to be max level, and leveling is currently a grind. Quests are not fun, T1 is for the most part dead, and sub level 22 scenarios don't give tokens for gear potentially better than vendor items, not to mention a win gives you ~half the xp of one keep. This may not be true for everyone, but the people leading these warbans definitely have that type of mindset where they just want to get to 26 ASAP without flat out PvE grinding. Something that we should not be blaming the players for, but the game design itself.

Adding say a 30 minute timer to keeps after they are flipped will help, but I don't think it will cure the underlying problem with ORvR in this game.

The game was built around ORvR being the main aspect, but as time went ORvR became redundant to many players. 4 missing capital cities, and the complete and utter casualization of city pushes killed it. When I played a bit after launch, there was realm pride. Defending a keep or BO meant something because we where working towards the monumental task of pushing a fort, and the almost unobtainable jewel that was getting to invade the enemy city.

It was easy to get immersed and care about things like keeps, and you could feel angry or ecstatic when your city got invaded or you invaded the other city. But after a certain patch... cities went from something that took multiple alliance and vents full of almost 100 people near perfect coordination to pull off, to a shitty 3+ times a day grind for EZ sov gear. ORvR lost purpose and most of the top guilds only participated in it because it could mean better gear.... so they could perform better in the new main focus of the game for them... Scenarios. At least that was how it was for me, in the 3 different guilds I was in on both sides on IR/Badlands.

You need to make people care again, somehow bring back realm maybe even guild pride outside of scenarios to fix ORvR. Or it will just be the grind that it was in later patches on live, and how it is currently in T2. Once someone has all the medallions and influence they need for whatever gear etc... they will stop caring about keeps and ORvR in general.

And If i remember correctly we would even let destro push altdorf so our alliances premades could farm them for sov gear etc... very bad game design potentially rewarding you for getting your city pushed.

[pacman2k22]

I really think an improved and scaling reward for defense would alleviate most of the issues. If defense was worth while it would get each realm trying to defend more then 1 front and push people to use the tactics we all desire.

[bangkokeight]

Two quick solutions to add back some pride and make people care more about fighting than exp grind in rvr (feel free to ignore, just random ramblings);

1) add back in (if and when its possible and the devs are able to /want to) the ability for a guild to claim a keep and upgrade it.

Back in the old live servers an announcement that your guild keep was being hit did prompt alot of people to run and defend. Also upgrading defense mechanics (more guards, door hp etc) meant that it became possible for smaller groups to defend against larger ones..

2) add an rvr scoreboard on the forum.. something like that. Let people have a target for who has the most DB's, earned most rr etc for a certain period. Could be updated weekly. With the people with the top rank of each class getting a trophy or reward of some type. Not sure how hard it would be to set up, but i recall winkl having something similar in terms of rr per class per server back on live. There could be individual scores and guild scores, with guilds getting points for how long they held a claimed keep, if claimed keeps are possible.

just couple of satangs worth of thoughts

[Azarael]

Current pending changes:

- kills made in defense of a keep grant 2.5x exp and renown
- kills made in defense of a keep can drop medallions (5% chance)
- keep reward for capture severely nerfed
- attacker kills on a keep now add a multiple of the xp/renown made for that kill to a pool which is shared between all attackers on capture
- valid kills for the above require that the player is within 200ft of the keep and at least 12 players are around that area
- bo control is counted for keep door regeneration rate

What I'm considering doing as well:

- battlefield objective and keep control grants an experience, renown and droprate bonus if one realm holds more than the other
- having contributed to a BO capture (only one at a time) ticks money over time to the holders
- heroic defender on battlefield objectives if an incoming zerg is detected (some limited version of it)

[titoos]

Theese would be epic changes can't wait

[radiantknight]

- keep reward for capture severely nerfed

then what's the point of even taking it?

While this is good and all, let's recall chaos t2, where action still goes. Empty and forsaken STK is getting flipped constantly, so it won't be flipped that much after changes. Mandred belongs to order most of the time, partially because of server resets which revert it to order. As it is now - destro farm every night, with these changes 2 paths open up
1. Why even bother for mandred, when you get less rewards?
2. Destro continue mindless bashing and order levels up 2,5 times faster.

Greenskin t2 keeps are a joke, lords are nonexistent practically, since they don't have much HP/defense. So those changes will tone down keep flips, making ppl less interested.

All the more reasons to take BOs, less reasons for keeps. If the rewards for keep taking were higher, smth like chest with loot (+lockout timer to avoid fast flips), then I'd switch from taking empty ones.

[Azarael]

Without dealing with the ability to get massive XP/Renown from an empty keep, there's nothing to stop the idea of collaboration without shoving unreasonably long lockout timers on every keep that flips. I don't know about you, but I find standing around at BOs/Keeps for 5-10 minutes waiting for them to tick is a total waste of time.

I assume you DID read that attacker kills within the keep area build up the pot, so that taking a defended keep would give similar if not greater rewards?

[radiantknight]

Without dealing with the ability to get massive XP/Renown from an empty keep, there's nothing to stop the idea of collaboration without shoving unreasonably long lockout timers on every keep that flips. I don't know about you, but I find standing around at BOs/Keeps for 5-10 minutes waiting for them to tick is a total waste of time.

I assume you DID read that attacker kills within the keep area build up the pot, so that taking a defended keep would give similar if not greater rewards?

Yeah, I did, but 2.5 multiplier is for every defender's kill, but attacker's pool becomes available after a capture, no capture = no bonus. As of now, without premades, on mandred it's gonna be beneficial to order, just the observation of almost every night.
Also, if keep is empty, there is no bonus.
This can work in greenskin t2, not in chaos, but I hope I will be proven otherwise and all this will go great.

[Azarael]

The Mandred's issue has needed to be fixed for a long time now. The position of the keeps in T2 Empire is frankly a joke.

As of the next update, keep control will persist through restarts.