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Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

Proposals which did not pass the two week review, were rejected internally, or were not able to be implemented.
Cimba
Posts: 376

Re: Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

Post#161 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:31 pm

xtc1999 wrote:
Cimba wrote:
[*] Initiative being pretty useless beyond 250 (considering 100 ini debuff)[/list]
order has a 200 ini debuff (SW wrist slash + nature's blade), destro only 120 (black orc steal)
Yup. And in my opinion it is completely bat **** crazy but as the power that be made perfectly clear: Our opinion does not matter on that issue :)

It also doesnt change the conceptual problem, that there is a fairly low threshold until huge deminishing returns make Initiative basically useless in its current state.

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kitchenslave
Posts: 22

Re: Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

Post#162 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:00 pm

I skimmed the first 5 pages so if this was mentioned somewhere in the thread, I apologize. There seems to be a lot of good points in figuring out the proper amount of damage magic DPS classes should be doing and I think smart people can crunch the numbers and work out disrupt rates that make sense.

I think one shift that should be made is core utility spells. Roots on classes like the BW and Sorcerer should have big strikethrough bonuses or even made undefendable. Tons of classes have root breaks and most of the time you're dodging long immunity timers. Engineer and Magus pulls should be undefendable if not immune. Core utility should be looked at. When disrupts are reliable two thirds or less of the time while also timing them around constant immunities, players stop using them. AM and shaman AP drains, sorcerer disarms, healer AOE punts, roots, there is counterplay to these abilities beyond disrupt cheese. Also as a melee or tank etc, you know when you have immunity timers on you, you know you can charge in and not get rooted or CCed etc, let this be part of the counterplay not renown buys that make you RNG immune.

Damage is the issue not utility. Maybe make disrupt only affect damaging magical abilities and making the utility spells you want to stick have their damage removed. I love the idea of a magic classes kiting for 5 sec while the root timer on a melee ticks down knowing that his AOE root will stick for sure once the timer runs out. Maybe he's also monitoring that melee's root break ability and basing his strat off that. Knowing something will definitely stick if someone is not immune and hoping it will stick but has a decent chance of failure completely changes strats and gameplay.

Counterplay is important in any PVP mmo and right now there is no counterplay from BIS geared players against high disrupt. That needs to change.

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Tamarlan
Posts: 209

Re: Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

Post#163 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:27 pm

Cimba wrote:
Tamarlan wrote:Right now cloth-wearing healers are weak versus MDPS and strong versus RDPS. Sounds fair to me.
DOK and WP on the other hand are ok versus MDPS and strong versus RDPS. Sounds like there might be an issue.

By simply reducing disrupt significantly cloth-wearing healers are weak versus RDPS and MDPS.

Solution could be to change DOK and WP to be ok versus MDPS and RDPS.
So, you're saying shamans are weak against mdps? :shock:
They are very vulnerable against DPS applied by melee. This is what I meant. No doubt they are hard to catch ...
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Fallenkezef
Posts: 1492

Re: Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

Post#164 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:41 pm

If disrupt is so big a deal, remove it from renown options
Alea iacta est

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xtc1999
Banned
Posts: 95

Re: Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

Post#165 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:52 pm

Spoiler:
Fallenkezef wrote:If disrupt is so big a deal, remove it from renown options
wow mate, you're such a genius, maybe we should remove disrupt all together!!!!!!!!
Removing you from the BDF instead.
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ToXoS
Posts: 671

Re: Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

Post#166 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:02 pm

I played my full anni (so pretty much under-geared as it is) ST Sorc last week to test the disrupt changes.
In 1 hour of open WB pug play, I got 52 KB and 2 death. Sure I got disrupted more than before, but if you pick the right targets you still blow up people with no effort.
So imo and from my experience, the disrupt changes are not an issue (for a sorc anyway).
On destro side this is still the easiest and safest class to kill people if you know when to retreat.

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rmpl
Posts: 766

Re: Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

Post#167 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:09 pm

Spoiler:
Cimba wrote:Yup. And in my opinion it is completely bat **** crazy but as the power that be made perfectly clear: Our opinion does not matter on that issue :)
Was there a thread on this issue? Could you link it?
Ask him in a PM. This thread is about disrupt.

sogeou
Posts: 413

Re: Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

Post#168 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:11 pm

THIS IS AN EASY FIXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


If the current system is giving 30% base disrupt for 1050 willpower, just lower to 20% or a number that scales back a little. So, when you add the RR point for disrupt it is a little lower. So, just find a sweat spot. Nothing new needs to be created or changed. Just a small tweak. If the max you could get would be 15% disrupt from willpower if cap at 1050, that would be ok as you have to stack it.

It is simple.

That or make having more INT past 1100 INT give tons of strike thru. Then it will make people go all out on being glass cannon.

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Hastykrasty
Posts: 115

Re: Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

Post#169 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:15 pm

I like too wargrimnir's proposal, however I think that it should also follow a "rearrangement" of initiative values across the board. By this I don't necessarely mean a rebalance of gear stat (it would be a mess), but maybe the base ini level of each class, as others have already stated (maybe tie it with armor-tier: heavy armor=low ini, medium armor=medium ini, light armour=high ini, WH/WE should have the highest base value for obvious reason: stealth).
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Telen
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Re: Disrupt vs magical class, nerf/boost classes or rework disrupt in general?

Post#170 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:48 pm

sogeou wrote:That or make having more INT past 1100 INT give tons of strike thru. Then it will make people go all out on being glass cannon.
If you're a low intel hybrid class you cant counter the high will avoidance or dont have strikethrough then you have no gameplay way to counter cheap %based rr avoidance. Intel only goes against willpower not base avoidance. Melee classes arent forced to spec against avoidance, while it will decrease their damage they can still bypass via flanking. Intel giving strikethrough was meant to be the caster equivalence to melees ability to bypass avoidance. It wasnt a great design choice by Mythic putting both damage and strikethrough on the same stat.
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