Should 6man vs 6man matter in balance discussions?

[Lileldys]

Was Slice/Razor Stirke tactic changed to hit 9 targets instead of 3 + no damage reduction?? That'd probably make them alright, considering that they also have a good disrupt tool + AoE Outgoing Healdebuff, and a great morale 2 for bombing.
I'll test my WE tonight and see how it is for AoE

[bichka]

Well first they have aoe option

poor version of free choppa's skill while you have to spec tactic(WE) or hit at leat once with single target ability(for WH), still paper armor (choppa - med in green/yellow zone)
i don't want even comment this. i don't know any other class than WE/WH which is so useless in WB.

You are correct, but why does that mean delete them lol? Shouldn't you be bringing ideas on how to address that in the gameplay and balance forum?

that is my answer why 6x6 shouldn't be ignored, nothing more. But some (or most, i didn't readed whole topic) think about WB as minimal unit to discuss. There lot of useless classess for WB play. WH/WE just on top of list.

[bichka]

Was Slice/Razor Stirke tactic changed to hit 9 targets instead of 3 + no damage reduction?? That'd probably make them alright, considering that they also have a good disrupt tool + AoE Outgoing Healdebuff, and a great morale 2 for bombing.
I'll test my WE tonight and see how it is for AoE

don't forget to look on mitigation. choppa/slayer have WS tactics and stats on sets, even armor debuff on warlord
outgoing healdebuff meh, if your squishy is went so far to touch healers it's almost over. M2 is 1200 only, better than raze, but meh at all. range is pretty short.

[roadkillrobin]

Was Slice/Razor Stirke tactic changed to hit 9 targets instead of 3 + no damage reduction?? That'd probably make them alright, considering that they also have a good disrupt tool + AoE Outgoing Healdebuff, and a great morale 2 for bombing.
I'll test my WE tonight and see how it is for AoE

The biggest problem with those targeted AoE melee attacks is that you lose the ranged advantage compared to what you get on Flurry or Demolition. You still basicly do 0 damage if you don't have a main target within 5 feets and i'm not really sure about this but I think if the targeted AoE melee attack gets parried you also do 0 damage to close targets like you do on Shattered Shadows/Firey Blast.

The tactic should probobly make Slice/RS into a front cone aswell. I think the 3 target cap is fine if the damage penalty is removed aswell. I would also think the tactic could boost Sever Blessing to become a 3 target cone and bang, you got some good utillity aswell.

[Nameless]

I would make relics a group based buffs so give additional worth for we/wh. To be at the wb even for the relic group buff is more than current situation

[Penril]

It works both ways, ey?

I'm not telling you how to play. I am just telling you not to tell me how to play.

[lefze]

Was Slice/Razor Stirke tactic changed to hit 9 targets instead of 3 + no damage reduction?? That'd probably make them alright, considering that they also have a good disrupt tool + AoE Outgoing Healdebuff, and a great morale 2 for bombing.
I'll test my WE tonight and see how it is for AoE

The biggest problem with those targeted AoE melee attacks is that you lose the ranged advantage compared to what you get on Flurry or Demolition. You still basicly do 0 damage if you don't have a main target within 5 feets and i'm not really sure about this but I think if the targeted AoE melee attack gets parried you also do 0 damage to close targets like you do on Shattered Shadows/Firey Blast.

The tactic should probobly make Slice/RS into a front cone aswell. I think the 3 target cap is fine if the damage penalty is removed aswell. I would also think the tactic could boost Sever Blessing to become a 3 target cone and bang, you got some good utillity aswell.

Actually "5" ft is more like 15ft, so the range of the tactic gives the abilities a potential maxrange of 40ft granted you can keep a main target in 15ft +whatever the lag compensation gets you. Main target being able to negate the whole aoe by itself with avoidance is a valid concern, but I for one would value increased aoe cap to 9 over a cone with a cap of 3. Include sever blessing aswell as with a cap of 3 for the actual buff removal but 9 for the damage and we might be looking at something decent.

[Spierron]

hard to believe that you play WH/WE with your reasoning, if you want to go to the front line play something else.

[adamthelc]

First of all this is a balance argument instead of an argument on how the game should be balanced. Having said that.

WH and WE have unique things so I dont really feel bad they cant do everything.

They arent great in mass PvP. Sorcs and BWs arent great at sneaking around by themselves.

If you want to play a class that is more effective in mass PvP, maybe dont play a WH/WE.

They arent terrible though. Their effectiveness just doesnt scale with the amount of player like some of the other classes do. Add that to the fact that melee can suffer in big fights where their side isnt rolling over the other side.

[roadkillrobin]

First of all this is a balance argument instead of an argument on how the game should be balanced. Having said that.

WH and WE have unique things so I dont really feel bad they cant do everything.

They arent great in mass PvP. Sorcs and BWs arent great at sneaking around by themselves.

If you want to play a class that is more effective in mass PvP, maybe dont play a WH/WE.

They arent terrible though. Their effectiveness just doesnt scale with the amount of player like some of the other classes do. Add that to the fact that melee can suffer in big fights where their side isnt rolling over the other side.

They are terrible. They usually doesn't even get first picked in 6v6 so their only strenght is offset by better stuff of classes that also gets first picked in large scale so why should any one main the classes at all when other classes actually got to be mained and played every platforms the game offers. The classes have taken alot of nerfs, WE especially, over time aswell by changing mechanics in the game that wasn't directed to the classes in the first place.