WE and WHs changes made the game booring any fixes?

[crystl32]

The truth is, and the good players know it, that almost every class is capable of kill WE/WH (if built and played correctly). But instead of thinking about how, people would rather come to the forum with their wounded egos to whine and demand crazy nerfs

that also depends on how well the WE plays. if you get rolled by somebody who clearly doesn't know what he's doing and just spams weird sh!t at you it becomes a balance problem. denying that obvious outliers don't exist is outright delusional XD

[Detrytus]

Just take away POUNCE ability from WE or replace it in form of morale1 like SM already have. Should be a change in right direction. And ofc make incognito/shadow prowler for both WH/We abilities last not longer then 30 sec. All community will be fine with that.

[nat3s]

Hilarious lack of game knowledge going on, def WE isn't close to the best 1v1 class at present.

If you gear like the sheep in 5sov 4tri glass cannon setups, you cant just stick your fingers in your ears and demand the devs change the balance because you refuse to adapt your build. People specifically optimise their builds for 1v1 play, they do so sacrificing an awful lot and solo roaming means turning a corner into a WB/6man is a lot of the times going to lead to your death. Any solo roamer carries around the scars of getting WB rolled all evening, its a test of perseverance and humility at times.

There's so many options out there for builds, the LV parry weapons, LV absorb proc set bonus, toughness builds, armour builds... Yet people would rather throw all those options in the bin because they refuse to play anything other than 5sov 4 tri or maybe 3/3/3.

If the devs started nerfing def specs, you'd see so much homogenisation and less appeal in certain dungeons and sov sets. Just makes no sense to have everyone build the same way and throw all that content on the fire.

To anyone struggling with a def WE as a WL, dps RP, dps AM or WH, you're doing it wrong. There are solo builds for all 4 which can beat a def WE:

* WL has the 50%+ parry, 10k hp, capped strength, high regen, high weaponskill build.
* RP has a free win against def WE, just know when to turtle up switching to willpower rather than int on-the-fly. Use 5 piece heal sov.
* AM with armour or tough setup is a fairly even fight with a def WE, but I'd give AM the edge.
* WH has a 75% parry build which beats a def WE.

Def WE rose to prominence because of Hygucma and Witchrage. Nowadays it is way less powerful, the current solo meta kings are dps RP and def WL. The removal of range and damage from RA was huge for def WE for those that know and a particularly astute change from the devs imo.

For me, to fix the solo meta some other subtle changes are needed:

* Have casting AP drain for sham/AM interrupt detaunt
* Reduce WL LF dmg slightly
* Add a 25% stat reduction to AM/Zeal heal/dps toggle abilities

[Sever1n]

Man pls stop spam yor def options like you open America over and over, we got your point and well aware that defencive builds exist. First thing def WE do when she met counterbuild trouble is put you to stugger and go away. We talking how overloaded her kit in general and not discussing whos the the king on of the hill of duels. Prob any normal dps WP eat alive any WE and ive even met regen versions of them far surpasing def WE in terms of annoyance because guilty soul now is basically infinite wirchbrew, but only def WE have options to became toxic tank that can ignore offencive stats, pick her figths, reengage on demand, and be decent bad news for anyone she faceroll on. https://www.twitch.tv/rtixoxod/clip/Cru ... zG7qHB65Fs
Thats regular def nonregen WE boxing def lion that you claim can kill several of them. He almost killed WE in another duel, but thats not a riposte regenbot WE that can play same parry games as your def gear builds on other classes. Imagine he will come in hard counter lion build.

We talking here about WE and WH. If you have problems with other classes overperforming then why balance proposals is empty? If RA build is dead where is feedback from WEs why its dead? Instead of giving info and ask for fixes of both broken and overperforming things people instead smokeskreen obviosly toxic things that was discussed and asked for nerf for years. Nice job, nothing to add.

[Grafzahl1111]

Hilarious lack of game knowledge going on, def WE isn't close to the best 1v1 class at present.

If you gear like the sheep in 5sov 4tri glass cannon setups, you cant just stick your fingers in your ears and demand the devs change the balance because you refuse to adapt your build. People specifically optimise their builds for 1v1 play, they do so sacrificing an awful lot and solo roaming means turning a corner into a WB/6man is a lot of the times going to lead to your death. Any solo roamer carries around the scars of getting WB rolled all evening, its a test of perseverance and humility at times.

There's so many options out there for builds, the LV parry weapons, LV absorb proc set bonus, toughness builds, armour builds... Yet people would rather throw all those options in the bin because they refuse to play anything other than 5sov 4 tri or maybe 3/3/3.

If the devs started nerfing def specs, you'd see so much homogenisation and less appeal in certain dungeons and sov sets. Just makes no sense to have everyone build the same way and throw all that content on the fire.

To anyone struggling with a def WE as a WL, dps RP, dps AM or WH, you're doing it wrong. There are solo builds for all 4 which can beat a def WE:

* WL has the 50%+ parry, 10k hp, capped strength, high regen, high weaponskill build.
* RP has a free win against def WE, just know when to turtle up switching to willpower rather than int on-the-fly. Use 5 piece heal sov.
* AM with armour or tough setup is a fairly even fight with a def WE, but I'd give AM the edge.
* WH has a 75% parry build which beats a def WE.

Def WE rose to prominence because of Hygucma and Witchrage. Nowadays it is way less powerful, the current solo meta kings are dps RP and def WL. The removal of range and damage from RA was huge for def WE for those that know and a particularly astute change from the devs imo.

For me, to fix the solo meta some other subtle changes are needed:

* Have casting AP drain for sham/AM interrupt detaunt
* Reduce WL LF dmg slightly
* Add a 25% stat reduction to AM/Zeal heal/dps toggle abilities

omg seems u dont have a clue, WH with 75 parry does no damage to def WE, cause no weaponskill, maybe u should play instead of theorycrafting, prob is that def WE is regging and bursting same time, just remove autoattack proc from witchbrew, and give Exit wounds spririt damage and debuff of toughn/armor instead of WS and STr
and Sever1n u are right

[fatelvis]

The truth is, and the good players know it, that almost every class is capable of kill WE/WH (if built and played correctly). But instead of thinking about how, people would rather come to the forum with their wounded egos to whine and demand crazy nerfs

Yeah sure, let's all grab our grims and fleshs and go full tough and wound..and watch the WE leap and vanish once it gets too close for comfort.

Love the 'no 1v1' argument as well. You WE mains sure won't mind losing your absorb than, you're supposed to run with a tank. Or dropping your incoming HD, the second dps is supposed to apply that actually. Or 2 of your 3 armor ignoring attacks, because why the hell would you need 3? Unconditional kd, **** ton of non-phys attacks, wounds debuff turning into 1.6k insta hit, exit and catching tools. You sure can disclaim some of those and leave it to your teammates careers, it's no solo game after all.

[nat3s]

Hilarious lack of game knowledge going on, def WE isn't close to the best 1v1 class at present.

If you gear like the sheep in 5sov 4tri glass cannon setups, you cant just stick your fingers in your ears and demand the devs change the balance because you refuse to adapt your build. People specifically optimise their builds for 1v1 play, they do so sacrificing an awful lot and solo roaming means turning a corner into a WB/6man is a lot of the times going to lead to your death. Any solo roamer carries around the scars of getting WB rolled all evening, its a test of perseverance and humility at times.

There's so many options out there for builds, the LV parry weapons, LV absorb proc set bonus, toughness builds, armour builds... Yet people would rather throw all those options in the bin because they refuse to play anything other than 5sov 4 tri or maybe 3/3/3.

If the devs started nerfing def specs, you'd see so much homogenisation and less appeal in certain dungeons and sov sets. Just makes no sense to have everyone build the same way and throw all that content on the fire.

To anyone struggling with a def WE as a WL, dps RP, dps AM or WH, you're doing it wrong. There are solo builds for all 4 which can beat a def WE:

* WL has the 50%+ parry, 10k hp, capped strength, high regen, high weaponskill build.
* RP has a free win against def WE, just know when to turtle up switching to willpower rather than int on-the-fly. Use 5 piece heal sov.
* AM with armour or tough setup is a fairly even fight with a def WE, but I'd give AM the edge.
* WH has a 75% parry build which beats a def WE.

Def WE rose to prominence because of Hygucma and Witchrage. Nowadays it is way less powerful, the current solo meta kings are dps RP and def WL. The removal of range and damage from RA was huge for def WE for those that know and a particularly astute change from the devs imo.

For me, to fix the solo meta some other subtle changes are needed:

* Have casting AP drain for sham/AM interrupt detaunt
* Reduce WL LF dmg slightly
* Add a 25% stat reduction to AM/Zeal heal/dps toggle abilities

omg seems u dont have a clue, WH with 75 parry does no damage to def WE, cause no weaponskill, maybe u should play instead of theorycrafting, prob is that def WE is regging and bursting same time, just remove autoattack proc from witchbrew, and give Exit wounds spririt damage and debuff of toughn/armor instead of WS and STr
and Sever1n u are right

Def WE doesn't burst, you sacrifice dmg for survival exactly in the same way a parry WH will.

[nat3s]

Man pls stop spam yor def options like you open America over and over, we got your point and well aware that defencive builds exist. First thing def WE do when she met counterbuild trouble is put you to stugger and go away. We talking how overloaded her kit in general and not discussing whos the the king on of the hill of duels. Prob any normal dps WP eat alive any WE and ive even met regen versions of them far surpasing def WE in terms of annoyance because guilty soul now is basically infinite wirchbrew, but only def WE have options to became toxic tank that can ignore offencive stats, pick her figths, reengage on demand, and be decent bad news for anyone she faceroll on. https://www.twitch.tv/rtixoxod/clip/Cru ... zG7qHB65Fs
Thats regular def nonregen WE boxing def lion that you claim can kill several of them. He almost killed WE in another duel, but thats not a riposte regenbot WE that can play same parry games as your def gear builds on other classes. Imagine he will come in hard counter lion build.

We talking here about WE and WH. If you have problems with other classes overperforming then why balance proposals is empty? If RA build is dead where is feedback from WEs why its dead? Instead of giving info and ask for fixes of both broken and overperforming things people instead smokeskreen obviosly toxic things that was discussed and asked for nerf for years. Nice job, nothing to add.

Look at the duels between Solater (def WE) and Altashir (def WL), not even close, def WL stomps def WE easily:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/59737223

Also Kovoo is not def built lol, perfect example of what im saying.

You obviously have to look across the board when balancing, if def WE is nerfed as you would like, then you'll just see an army of def WLs, Flowing/DG/Parry WHs and dps RPs. Some of us play for the meta. Heaven forbid we return to AM/Shaman Online like 2 years ago! There's a reason why AM was 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the duel tournament not long ago!

There's more variety than ever, game is spot-on for balance imo. Each class has its cool toys, slayers got Rampage back, Chops retained GTDC, WE/WH made distinct and cool, WE with pounce, WH with ranged kiting (and you should be kiting with Flowing Accusations now!).

As much as I enjoy def WE, glass cannon WH is my main, way more fun, but I am working on my def WH set currently which I think will outperform my WE considerably...

Join the solo roamers Discord and learn the game, annoying enough that some solo players feel compelled not to share the knowledge.

[culland]

Typical WE gaslight example. Look at everything dont look at us. And classical - 1v1 balance dont matter, so dont touch us.

This. Disingenuous nonsense for the most part.

[fatelvis]

Def WE doesn't burst, you sacrifice dmg for survival exactly in the same way a parry WH will.

With wracking pains, up to 3 EB stacks, armor ignoring agonizing wounds with WB on top and, if you don't pay attention, enfeebling strike ticking, it sure starts to feel bursty.
Regarding your build recommendation: I fought mid/right tree WEs with 75% parry, more than softcapped corp resist, 4k-ish armor, 10k+ hp, 900+ str and magic absorb every 10s and they still grind you down.
Sure you can go heavy regen, but that's not a build, it's a confession of failure.