Overarching balance changes

[Jackiee]

I dont know if its just me, but I feel people actively responding to the correct debuffs and cleansing them before they can be covered (if you can remove most recently applied first) promotes good gameplay and elevates the skill required to play an effective healer.

The way things stand at the moment, there is zero counterplay for debuffs, a DPS just applies 2 debuffs to cover the thing he actually wants on and it sticks. If you can somehow wade through the nonsense to actually cleanse it, the skills cd is already back up.

Actually, having healed here and in other games, the entire cleanse mechanics inherently takes away from any capacity for skill involvement and reduces it purely to spam, which is why group cleanse is so good, cause if you are going to mindlessly spam, may as well increase the odds of removing something relevant.

I would really like to see the system reversed to see how the game plays if you can actually cleanse what you want given you are aware and fast.

[porkstar]

I dont know if its just me, but I feel people actively responding to the correct debuffs and cleansing them before they can be covered (if you can remove most recently applied first) promotes good gameplay and elevates the skill required to play an effective healer.

The way things stand at the moment, there is zero counterplay for debuffs, a DPS just applies 2 debuffs to cover the thing he actually wants on and it sticks. If you can somehow wade through the nonsense to actually cleanse it, the skills cd is already back up.

Actually, having healed here and in other games, the entire cleanse mechanics inherently takes away from any capacity for skill involvement and reduces it purely to spam, which is why group cleanse is so good, cause if you are going to mindlessly spam, may as well increase the odds of removing something relevant.

I would really like to see the system reversed to see how the game plays if you can actually cleanse what you want given you are aware and fast.

As a RP I've specced with the cleanse tactic and played "cleanse bot" when we weren't particularly hurting for heals. I just spammed cleanse. I think my record was 13 cleanses in a row on the MDPS. Realistically in anything greater than a 6v6, I feel like it would be nearly impossible to cleanse at that perfect moment when the heal debuff is applied. I do like what you've had to say however.

[roadkillrobin]

I have to ask, from a balance perspective, what is the intention behind having cleanse remove the oldest debuff rather than the newest debuff?

I belive at moast part of the live version you actually cleansed a random debuff of that type.
Wich made cleansing much better. I dunno wich version i like better tbh. First in first out makes so that dps need to think more about their debuff stacking while random debuff cleansed they just run longest CD first to have it up asap again but actually randomly increase ttk.
Removing the latest debuff first jut makes it way to easy to cover up healdebuffs.

[Bozzax]

How many of you actually play/played healers and both medium and cloth?

6v6 or 12v12 the main reason for cleansing of cd (ST and Group) is simply to prevent dot and debuff build up. If you’d allow the enemy DPS to apply undisturbed rotations on their focused target you won’t be able to heal through it.

This is probably most "visible" for BW/SORC where lack of cleanse means you die even with X healers focusing you.

(In most 6vX situations cleanse isn’t really a huge thing and morales is required for de pressuring enough damage to be able to heal through.)

Group cleanse is more efficient as it removes more dots/debuffs and when the enemy target switch they are more likely they start on a clean target.

Group cleanse as a side effect render group heavy classes almost useless 6v6, 12v12 which is a pity imo.

[Jaycub]

Who said cleansing should be heal debuffs only?

[Bozzax]

If cleanse removes oldest, random or newest matter little imo. Reading the thread it seems like quite a few actually don't understand why you cleanse of CD* and what makes group cleanse stronger.

(I EDIT:ed HD part out since you didn't get what I meant )

From my POV (group) cleanse is under fire/being discussed as the "have it all healers" have them exclusively.

To be honest having rock solid (M2s,) M3s, M4s, COVs/Prayers, Medium armor but most importantly 1s group heals, 66% up AOE HOTs and higher efficiency on cleanse makes them the cornerstone of all serious groups. You could actually take away group cleanse entirely and nothing would change. DOK/WP would still be the first healer picked for a group.

I'd try give AM/SHA** cast on move group heals instead of messing with cleanse and TTK to break the DOK/WP domination.

* when FT health allows it

**Extending to RP/Zeal if it works out

[Jackiee]

You are correct that WP/DoK shine for more reasons than just cleanse. But I wasnt under the impression that this thread was discussing class balance specifically but more over-arching game mechanics.

I 100% disagree with you saying that cleansing oldest,random or newest matters little. I also 100% disagree that cleansing is solely to prevent debuff build up, it is atm because theres nothing else you can do with it, but if the mechanic were changed then the capacity for its use goes far beyond arbitrary spam to prevent debuff overload.

Having the choice to actively time cleanse on things like armor/heal/wounds debuffs would completely change the effectiveness of cleanse as a mechanic and probably differentiate good and great healers.

[footpatrol2]

Here is something I'd like to see.

Cross race buff's not stacking. Meaning knight aura's cannot stack on dwarves or high elves. Chosen aura's cannot affect greenskins or dark elves. IB buffs only affect other dwarves. Rp buffs not stack on empire or high elves. AM resist buff not stack on empire dwarves. etc etc...This would dramatically change the game and get people re-looking into group compositions. You would barely have to change anything to make this balanced.

All outgoing abilities would be unaffected.

5% extra morale gain per same race member. For a total of 30-25% additional morale gain over mixed groups. If in a warband setting if you have same race groups grouped together have 5% additional morale gain. So a warband of same race gets a additional 15% morale gain boost. For a total boost of 45 to 40% additional morale gain of a same race warband.

Have warlord through anni gear tied to the zones. Greenskin/Dwarf gear only drops from greenskin/dwarf zones nothing else. DE/HE gear drops from only HE/DE zones. Chaos/Empire gear only drops from chaos/empire zones. Sovereign gear still drop from cities.

Undo the defensive moral cycle nerf. Bring back moral pump tactic for dok. Instead of bolstering boon tactic being tied to boon of hysh have it tied to lambent aura or healing energy to mimic dok moral pump. Mountain spirit back to 30 sec's. 1001 blessings back to 30 sec. Gromril plating back to group buff. Sprout carapace back to m3 on chosen. etc etc...

Dramatically smash down the affect of potions or straight get rid of long duration potion stacking and instead have short duration potion stacking with long cooldowns meaning. Example: take a potion and for the next 10/20 sec's you get a small stat increase can't use it again for 5 min or 3 min.

[Penril]

Here is something I'd like to see.

Cross race buff's not stacking. Meaning knight aura's cannot stack on dwarves or high elves.

Worst suggestion i have read so far. Really, go to your room...

[footpatrol2]

But is it really? or is it just something you haven't put a lot of thought into and its scary because its unfamiliar to you...

Think through the idea... Don't just react to the suggestion.