Heaven's Fury / Quake

[Soulcheg]

It still have a plenty of utility as close gap range

The only purpose of stagger now, is the free immunities giveaway.

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Aza, what do you think if stager will be at least 5s, but the duration of the immunities will be a little longer, 45s, for example, instead of 30s.

[Azarael]

I've already spoken on this topic. KotBS and Chosen are in no position to receive any kind of buff.

[Penril]

Complicated thread.

On one hand, i feel 3 sec duration is too short (specially if you pug a lot). On the other hand, in the hands of a proper premade it can be very useful. Then again, if you are in a SC, chances are the other group will break the stagger in the first second anyway. Stagger really shines (3 or 5 sec) when it is only your group vs. superior numbers.

Chosen and KotBS can go tri-spec in T4, with

- Chosen: Crippling Strikes, Downfall, Quake, and a last skill point they can use on whatever they want (some go AP aura, some go AoE heal db aura, etc).
- KotBS: Encouraged Aim, Dirty Tricks, Smashing Counter and Heaven's Fury.

Both have a 3 sec stagger, a 3 sec ST KD, and great tactics. Giving them a 5 sec stagger would probably be too much. So what can be done? This is all i could think of.

1) Leave those classes as they are (possibly what most people will suggest).
2) Increase stagger duration to 5 secs, but swap their positions in their trees (making them cost 14 points), to prevent them from having all the toys i mentioned (my favorite option, even though a LOT of tri-spec Chosen/KotBS would cry with this).

[Soulcheg]

Hey Penril, do you have KotBS or Chosen?

[Penril]

Hey Penril, do you have KotBS or Chosen?

I have both at lvl 32, rr30+. Played both on live as well to rr70+.

Im not giving an actual suggestion, i simply said what i thought about the skills. As i said, this is a complicated thread and i wont waste my energy attacking/defending Stagger. There are more important things to discuss on those classes anyway.

[mursie]

2) Increase stagger duration to 5 secs, but swap their positions in their trees (making them cost 14 points), to prevent them from having all the toys i mentioned (my favorite option, even though a LOT of tri-spec Chosen/KotBS would cry with this).

I think that is a great idea. This or remove it altogether and maybe put it on another tank instead of chosen/kotbs.

I do think the tank archetype should have a good stagger...and I do think 3 secs is somewhat short (although as sizer noted, can still be great when coordinated brilliantly)..

[Shadowgurke]

maybe it would be possible to increase the cooldown to such a degree that it is no longer considered an actual buff

[peterthepan3]

Or...invite a magus/engi to provide the 5 sec stagger?
Seriously kotbs/chosen are op beyond belief and have access to more utility than anyone. They are good enough with 3 seconds.

[Toldavf]

Think people have forgotten how easy stagger wiping the enemy was.

[bloodi]

Think people have forgotten how easy stagger wiping the enemy was.

I dont think anyone who played Daoc has ever forgotten what a group can do with a cc thaat breaks on damage and focusing targets.