DE Racial Groups

Discuss Black Guard, Sorceress, Witch Elf, and Disciple of Khaine.
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Dabbart
Posts: 2251

Re: DE Racial Groups

Post#21 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:56 pm

footpatrol2 wrote: I address the lack of resistance by not allowing the damage to land or at least very little of it too until I get my m4 dark rites thousand eye's 30 sec.

...

You don't allow the damage to land.

You don't allow the damage to land

...
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footpatrol2
Posts: 1093

Re: DE Racial Groups

Post#22 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:05 pm

@skrutrag

(sorry for the double post)

My goal is to try and get players to see this game from my perspective. That the builds you can do are a lot more complex and nuanced. My goal is to get enough playerbase support that maybe.. just maybe we can start to undo all these drastic changes that happened to the balance in this game due to mythic losing a metric ass ton of subscriptions. I'm not saying that all their changes were horrible but a lot of them I feel were un-needed and were done because Morale Bombs in a highly competitive environment never really took off.

Now I can be completely wrong on morale bombs not ever taking off. Maybe I missed that boat. I cannot speak for everyone. I've never heard of people doing what I'm talking about in a highly competitive environment.

In addition, I think trying to balance this game at the 6 man level is straight wrong. (<---opinion) If this game had all of its SC's based on 6 man play and only 6 can join in a SC, I'd say you got an argument. This game in my opinion was based at the minimum 12 man level if not straight 24 man level. We can change the game so that its based on the 6 man level which is what I think the current playerbase is trying to do. But this game in my opinion was never based on small scale combat.

If i'm dead wrong on this HTL idea with DE. Just confirmed in-game healers that stack disrupt can get 40% disrupt so with HTL thats 45+40= 85% disrupt. Can you guys at least nicely prove me wrong as opposed to making fun of me.
Last edited by footpatrol2 on Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gachimuchi
Posts: 525

Re: DE Racial Groups

Post#23 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:17 pm

Even if you land a double premade I think the dynamic largely remains the same.

If you're doing scenarios and the objective is capture points you MIGHT be able to get away with letting people wail on you for who knows long it will take to gain M4, then turning off HTL and getting assist on one target with your WEs. Thats a very big might because: A. you're applying no pressure to their casters and B. a melee train will slaughter you. DoKs are pretty decent at surviving melee trains but they can't do it forever.
After punting people away initially the enemy melee train will have immunity, and since your blackguards are all specced to deal with magic mostly you're not gonna have a good time. You have no AoE snare avalible, and if your witch elves both are full spec up treachery you have no incHD. With no marauder to debuff wounds (I'll give you that blackguard has a decent armor debuff) since your blackguards are all anguish spec they have no wounds debuff. You're gonna have a bad time. (HRT is not very good as far as wounds debuffs go)

Once again, you downplay the time it takes to build M4. I suggest either learning the current meta why the mixed bag of races instead of all 1, or sticking to large scale where pretty much anything can work with someone to say "use your big aoe damage morale now". King's Own is pretty good at this. I'm going to stop replying now.
Last edited by Gachimuchi on Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3806

Re: DE Racial Groups

Post#24 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:19 pm

your right the game is not based around 6 man but rather it is balanced towards it because of 2 reasons: It is considred the "highest level of play" and secondly because once you start getting into WB v WB and stuff there are simpy just too many factors to consider that its not worth it
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Shadowgurke
Posts: 618

Re: DE Racial Groups

Post#25 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:37 pm

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footpatrol2
Posts: 1093

Re: DE Racial Groups

Post#26 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:46 pm

Look I played the mixed meta for years. You think when I ran those dwarve grps I didn't do mixed groups also? Has this game Dramatically changed since live? I played to near death of live. Maybe things have dramatically changed. I suspect the fundamentals are there though.

Your WE don't have to be sitting idle either. You could be a lot more aggressive and not just sit in one spot with the HTL grp. You could be punting key targets away from their guard and having the WE's eat them. I haven't even explored all the tricks you could do with this group yet. There is a TON of tricks not fully explored yet which if you want to have a positive constructive conversation we could explore them together.

Also... I don't have to be taking WE's. I just used that in this example. The WE barely made a difference in that arguement. I'm not saying there isn't counters to this. I'm just saying its fairly robust especially when thousand eye's was 30 sec.

I only explained how I'd deal with the resistance issue until I got my m4. If not enough pressure was put on me i'd just morale bomb you. You don't need m4 for DE morale bomb. 4 WE gives 4800 morale bomb m2 Web of shadows. If you could wait it out till your m3 you got an additional 4800 morale bomb from your Dok's if you slotted for it prior to combat.

Look also what I did in that example with the SC. I LOOKED at what I was facing prior to the SC start. Then as a group I did a tactic slot switch to handle what I was facing. If I went into a SC and Say it was more of a melee train type build cool. I'd Tactic slot switch to a different build prior to the SC even starting. In high competitive environment you'll start to notice people's names which usually means thier premades. If its a lowly no name BW thats in the SC. I might not even slot for HTL tactics. I'll just make him a priority for my WE's to kill.

@tentonhammer
This is almost straight up a different conversation. Not really dealing with mixed groups or not.

I dunno how to quote so sorry
"it is considered the "highest level of Play"...

If I can organize a 12 man and your a 6 man in a SC. Do you think the 6 man has a chance?

Maybe the game is based on 12 and not warband. I don't know... I don't claim to know everything. But in my opinion definitely not 6 man.

@shadowgurke
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I don't get this guys... why is everyone so anti-theory?

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Shadowgurke
Posts: 618

Re: DE Racial Groups

Post#27 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:50 am

footpatrol2 wrote:
I don't get this guys... why is everyone so anti-theory?
You post a group setup centered around AP drain. A Marauder would be better than the second WE, both in terms of AP Drain and Utility. You reject this idea because it's not a DE.

That's where you are losing everybody.

Either you post the best setup focused around your goal, "ap draining", or you are just building wonky setups that are wonky on purpose because "DE racial synergy". A concept that, if I have to remind you, you and only you seem to be able to grasp

Edit: And that is ignoring that both your concept and your game idea are totally off point.
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footpatrol2
Posts: 1093

Re: DE Racial Groups

Post#28 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:10 am

So there are people that contact me in game that buy into what i'm talking about. They are skeptical because its not traditional. But we have conversations in game about it. I think players are afraid of commenting on the forums in fear of getting bashed like I constantly do get bashed on this stuff. There is more player interest then your giving it credit.

@shadowgurke
The title kinda does say DE racial groups. It didn't say DE racial groups plus a AP drain marauder.
I recognize that the marauder provides a AP drain and different utility. Cool neat. Thanks for the contribution I appreciate it. I kinda rather explore DE groups thou like the title said and try and figure out all the tricks you can do them with their under utilized spec's. I didn't say I was looking for the best AP drain group. I just said it could.

That was just one DE group I was going to list. I was going to list several DE group builds starting at 6 man then expanding to 12 man builds. I did state WAY back in my origins of balance thread that I was going to do this. I am getting contacted in game from players, so there is player interest which inspires me to post more. Because these posts are doing what I want them to do which is generate player interest.

Thank you thou for pointing out some hard questions I have to deal with. It helps make my builds stronger so I appreciate it.

@saupreusse
Thanks.
Last edited by footpatrol2 on Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Keyser
Posts: 153

Re: DE Racial Groups

Post#29 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:59 am

There used to be DE only guilds on some server. So this discussion might be interesting for those kind of player - most of them are roleplayers I assume.
For every other player, including me, it is hard to understand why someone wants to limit the possible grp-setups by such things like race. Maybe tomorrow someone starts a new thread with grp-setups only with classes that start with the letter 'S'.

Another problem I see is that you write that this setup "works" without defining what "works" actually mean. Can you win an sc versus randoms or against any premade? Do you want to kill some solo players in orvr or a whole wb? Do you just want to find the optimal setup with DE-classes only?
I mean I could post any setup - literally any setup - and then argue why that setup could work in certain situations.
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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3806

Re: DE Racial Groups

Post#30 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:19 am

personally i wish you persue the greenskin only thing more out of all the races i think they are the ones with the most synergy as race only
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