An in depth look

[Darosh]

GW2 was the most fun leveling ive had in a game, however.... lol the pvp...

"So, everyone has a dot, a heal, massive cc, good dps? WTF am I watching right now"

They even managed to kill PvE before launch, you should have seen Alpha-to-Beta PvE AI.
It got removed shortly after the first or second open beta weekend, because... well, people died in a videogame (against NPCs) and that apparently hurts more than the boredom that the casual facetank-click-kill PvE inflicts.

[k1o3]

I'm trying to understand the purpose of this thread, you start by giving a generalized lecture about gaming and using keyboard... only to tell us that you're above using addons....???

For example using Buffhead/Enemy/Aura makes it real simple to see when a BW is doing their rotation on you, so you have possible time to detaunt or break LOS before bursting in flames.
The majority of RoR players probably use a large variety of addons because they actually are quite helpful, especially when it comes to gaining vital information about buffs debuffs etc.

image related is an example why using BuffHead/Enemy is vital (so you see the Boiling Blood/WOP in time:

Spoiler:

My comment to the people I was speaking with wouldn't have made any sense in relation to the healthbars/nameplates comment unless I stated that it's because I do not use addons.

I'm not "above" using addons, i'm not sure why you took offense to that. I don't use them because I think they inadvertently make you worse over time. You don't have to share my opinion, it was just a personal statement I've expressed about myself, nothing to do with the thread.

I don't see why I get hit at every time I give examples of what the pro scene does in the genre or game that we play. Who should I be citing here, the best player in peoples opinions on the server? Like? I've never understood this.

I was merely stating what I do, that's why i didn't include that in the original post.

I'm not going to assume what your goal is, but my goal has to be as good as I can be. And to do that, to try to reinvent the wheel, I have to first understand what the wheel is. And I'm sorry to disappoint, but the average person has no idea in respects to gaming any of that. And the reason is, is because all gaming is really for probably 99% of the skill cap is knowledge.

You can see that in real life in gaming MMR systems. There was like a million people between 0-1600 MMR, probably one hundred thousand 2000-2200, and you could name the people above 2600. Most people below 2200 had just as much mechanical skill potential as the people who were 2200, they just knew more. The only difference in skill was really 2200 - before that it didnt even come into effect.

This would be more evident for you and extremely obvious if we did have a rating system. Look at how slowly the WoW culture evolved during vanilla and then how fast it spiked 2-3 years later.

People can't see skill above their own. They don't comprehend it. They see the scoreboard, the stats, but there's things that occur that the average player never even notices. If you watched that neilyo vs akrios video and didnt know either name, let's say i hid the name, you might not know who was better, they went about 50-50 in the duel. Neilyo was LIGHTYEARS ahead of everyone at the time, and it really boiled down to his control, even though Akrios was amazing in his own regard.

I really didn't include it in the main post because it'd trigger the entire community.

@Darosh it's a shame, because GW1 had a really interesting korean scene that got me into the game a bit.

[Twyxx]

Don't use addons, it dumbs down the game for you.
In fact, don't use a mouse or keyboard, cause those are all crutches.
And also, wtf are you crutched gamers doing? Really skilled people play this game on slabs of rock.

[k1o3]

Don't use addons, it dumbs down the game for you.
In fact, don't use a mouse or keyboard, cause those are all crutches.
And also, wtf are you crutched gamers doing? Really skilled people play this game on slabs of rock.

See.

SKT-1, MYM, CLG, etc. not using addons, but ok. Addons not only are illegal in the tournament scene but discouraged. I'm sure you could find more information to support this.

I'm not going to filter anything just for thinking "well, they're probably not going to understand this and flame me, BUT...." - i'm just not going to. You're welcome to disagree.

The highest paid to play professionals in the MMO genre did not use addons even when no longer paid to play. If you have a logical argument to that i'm all ears, but otherwise, it's just kind of flaming me because you don't like what you heard.

That's like me watching Golf and being like "Hey Tiger, you're a moron. Because my scratch card at the local club." lol.

I think the moment where you think you've figured out everything in gaming is the same moment where you stop getting better, wherever that may be.

[dansari]

Except add-ons make you better in RoR.. it takes less time to see who has guard or critical debuffs/buffs; it takes less time to swap targets; you have a machine telling you how far away your guard is so you don't have to guess if it's 29 feet or 31 feet. There are no professionals in RoR.. just a bunch of scrubs, some of whom are better than the other scrubs.. enjoying the game however they enjoy it. Comparing it to LoL is frankly absurd.

[k1o3]

Except add-ons make you better in RoR.. it takes less time to see who has guard or critical debuffs/buffs; it takes less time to swap targets; you have a machine telling you how far away your guard is so you don't have to guess if it's 29 feet or 31 feet. There are no professionals in RoR.. just a bunch of scrubs, some of whom are better than the other scrubs.. enjoying the game however they enjoy it. Comparing it to LoL is frankly absurd.

I think this boils down to if you play to win or play to be the best. To each their own. If this is truly your train of thought, though, I would stray away from playing against South Koreans in RTS - well, mostly anything. They're not using addons - that's real time 300+ APM coordinating over thirty things at a time. I don't think, at all, that addons make you better. They make you less bad, perhaps, but they're not making -you- better. If a player who doesn't use addons can do everything that you do, then.... ?

[Darosh]

Well, k1o3, my apologies for getting this shitposting train rolling.

For those of you chiming in after the fact, we've sorted out the addon thing on page 2 already, however to help it die:

Calm your tits and unterstand that its an opinion (by extension a fact, even) being stated by someone coming from a competitive scene that revolves around small scale in which everything he mentioned is absolutely applicable.
We already worked out that small scale != large scale and depending on stuff and this and that things change ~ it doesn't harm your ability to continue using addons yourself, nor did anyone pull the epeen card in a manner your replies would suggest.

Read the entirety of the thread, otherwise you just repeat points that have already been made and discussed.

[k1o3]

Well, k1o3, my apologies for getting this shitposting train rolling.

For those of you chiming in after the fact, we've sorted out the addon thing on page 2 already, however to help it die:

Calm your tits and unterstand that its an opinion (by extension a fact, even) being stated by someone coming from a competitive scene that revolves around small scale in which everything he mentioned is absolutely applicable.
We already worked out that small scale != large scale and depending on stuff and this and that things change ~ it doesn't harm your ability to continue using addons yourself, nor did anyone pull the epeen card in a manner your replies would suggest.

Read the entirety of the thread, otherwise you just repeat points that have already been made and discussed.

Thanks - i appreciate that. I can't really talk about any of that without getting flamed up a wall.

[dansari]

I'm just pointing out that using an add-on in a game like LoL or StarCraft is far different from using it in RoR. Are there even any add-ons in these games? Whatever - doesn't matter anyway.

[k1o3]

I'm just pointing out that using an add-on in a game like LoL or StarCraft is far different from using it in RoR. Are there even any add-ons in these games? Whatever - doesn't matter anyway.

Well, there are, but they are all illegal because they're considered performance enhancing programs, which, well, they are. Chalk it up however you like, you're using a third party to allow yourself to play better. We've dubbed the name 'addons', but in all reality, it's just simply cheating, and is not working as intended. The default UI and all the scripts, macros, etc. were there intended for your use by the developers. Everything else is just a variation of the intended purposes of what you should and should not be able to do through other means.

You couldn't personally keep count of diminishing returns, so you have a program do it for you. And you couldn't keep aware of your parties health and being able to micro manage it, so you had a program do it for you. You couldn't remember cool down timers, so - well, you get the point. Look, like I said, do what you like - but trying to sugarcoat it doesn't at all change what it is: it is a computer program completing difficult in game tasks for you to make your life easier, aka game shark.

The pro communities of RTS, FPS, MMO & MOBA got together a very long time ago and said not only do we not support it, we do not condone it. The general player base has often defaulted to the "well, it's not hurting anyone" type of argument. Well, maybe not, in a casual setting. But the truth is - you're really not that good. Your computer programs - your addons - are allowing you to be. My two cents. It's similar to a cyclist using performance enhancing drugs and stating, well, everyone else can use them - so why can't I? Because it's not you, and it's not real.

Did you beat me in a SC? Maybe. Perhaps you out healed me. And maybe, hey, you out DPS'ed me. But when you see me, know that it was me. That macro reaction speed to rezz the healer behind me? No one told me to do that. I saw it. That kill assist on a low target from a hard swap? No macro required. So you see the meters at the end and say that we're the same, but when i'm walking away, I know that it couldn't be further from the truth. Tell yourself whatever makes you feel better.

And when or if I beat you? That was all me. No amount of performance enhancing programs could save you. And the reason? Because I played the game to be better, to become better, to achieve something greater - but you played to win, at whatever cost. And can I tell you something? Just like your occupation, you will never be better than someone who does what they love. No amount of shortcuts or cutting corners will allow you to achieve what you're looking for, if you're looking at all.

This post might upset you - i hope that it does. But know this is the reason some players are pro, and others are not. They worked harder. They tried harder. They made no excuses and pointed no fingers. When they lost, they said, what could I do better? When they made a mistake, they thinned it down to 'all me'. They never looked to do what everyone else can do, but to what everyone could not do. They admitted that they knew nothing and yearned to know everything. At no moment did they assume that they were complete.

Despite all this, know that no matter what happens, I am truly indifferent. I will be in game, trying to do what I could not do yesterday. Not for you, not for fame, not for me or anyone I represent. I do it simply because I couldn't, always trying to push a boundary. My boundary. You probably think i'm stupid - you have every right. But at some point, at some moment, you will come across me and think: "how the #$*! did he do that."

That's why I play. Why do you play?

I see a lot of comments, a lot of questions, many posts and inquiries: how do I become better? Well, first, you realize that it is no easy struggle, no easier than anything else that you've accomplished in your life. You try, you lose, you become desperate, and discouraged. But you prevail regardless - despite the thousands telling you that you're not worth it, despite the enemies that you make, those that want nothing more than to shoot you down. You grind, every day - every moment. You give your 100% to achieve 100.00001%. If you do anything less, you will never be 'one of us'.

Anything less, and you never respected us. Anything less, and you never really wanted it. In fact, you know what, I hope that this inspires you. But first and foremost, respect the journey.