[Pre-Production] White Lion

[Gakin]

Spoiler:

Looks strong, i think spirit type dmg = mara 50% armor ignore tactic already, and additional 50% ignore resists ? And 1200 morale, cant wait to fight die against.

Does not follow format for feedback posts. Feel free to edit and remove my spoilers when done - Dan

[Timmitz]

Spoiler:

So you are still pushing to mirror the wl with mara... very dissapointing. The whole charm of this game is the assymetrical mirroring but you are only adding to one side and in my opinion messing up this game by turning it to an SWTOR or similar. I wonder how many players will leave the game this time...

Does not follow format for feedback posts. Feel free to edit and remove my spoilers when done - Dan

[Aceboltz]

Spoiler:

"You train your pet to stay and protect Chrace while you do battle.
...
Your pet gains the ability to be lonely."

I lol'd

Does not follow format for feedback posts. Feel free to edit and remove my spoilers when done - Dan

[Ramasee]

To assist you with understanding the below, we have updated the career builder to match these changes.
https://ror-career-builder.herokuapp.co ... white-lion

** There may be some issues with how this appears in the Career Builder. This post serves as the proposal, not the Builder.
** The timing for this depends on when the developers can implement. I do not have any semblance of a delivery date on this yet.

I will make the WL career builder match the proposal after I get off work today, in order to clear up this confusion between the career builder and the proposal. What is on the career builder is 10 days old.

Do I play White Lion?
I started to level one and got it to 38. Azareal changed the class significantly adding stances similar to the marauder. The revert back to way back when with many broken skills, didn't help. So I have been unwilling to do the final push.

Do I play the mirror, Marauder?
Yes, and I love it. Primary experience with marauder was organized warbands, a handful of solo scs as well.

What do I like about the proposal?

1. I like that I do now have three distinct paths I can take. Do I want pure damage output, debuff utility for a group, and I can play WL in a warband with the changes.
2. I like that for the most part, many of the key abilities were unchanged other than being moved trees.
3. I like that some of the tools other mdps have are no longer attached to the pet (like crit damage increase).
4. Toying with my own career builder; I like the opportunity costs involved with the left/middle tree interactions. You cannot get everything, making choices matter. Its a good balance theme, and I see why you quasi-mirror the marauder's trees.
5. I like that even though the trees are kind of mirrored to the marauder, the white lion is NOT a marauder, and still would not feel like one while playing. Because abilities weren't changed much, and I wasn't given a stance mechanic.

My concerns about the proposal?

1. I have some initial conerns about ST damage in the middle tree based off the formulas I know (and added to the career builder). However, the proposal states that damage numbers are subject to change so that is mostly mute.
2. The right tree feels isolated and not as well synergized. You pretty much will go right tree supported by middle tree tactic in warbands. Marauders do have some left tree synergy with their right tree.
3. Right tree damage looks imposing at first until you realize that debuffs are nullified by buffs and there are chosens every where. So we are looking at 22-40% resistance being dropped to 11-20% with a tactic. Again damage subject to change.
4. I am sad to see many of the pet tactics and abilities disappear; but I understand that those were not that great outside of a few instances primarily in PvE.

[peterthepan3]

Further comments that do not follow structure as per OP's request may be moderated: tell us your experience with said class, it's mirror (if no experience with said class), your pov (6man wb or solo) and then your feedback.

[Timmitz]

Spoiler:

Further comments that do not follow structure as per OP's request may be moderated: tell us your experience with said class, it's mirror (if no experience with said class), your pov (6man wb or solo) and then your feedback.

I give up... this has no use...

User warned for this post. Deliberately ignoring what was requested of him/everyone else, as well as an unnecessary dig. - ptp3

[Aurandilaz]

1. Do you play the class in question?
Yes, +60 WL

2. Do you play the mirror class of the class in question (or at least the same archetype)?

Mid 30s mara alt, don't play much. (too fugly)

3. What perspective do you speak from? What is your experience with the class in question (be that playing the class, or playing against it)?

Filthy minmaxed warbandshïtter, though leveling whatever means were possible so Scs soloing (Guardian ftw) rare groupplay. Played it as AoE warband pick as long as the AoE spec existed.
Though also quite often on the receiving end of WL dmg because filthy xrealmer etc.

4. Your feedback

Double cast time debuff / disorient in ONE tree is absurdly over the top. Assuming they stack it will be gamebreaking, assuming they don't stack you can still go full griefer and simply make sure casters cannot do much, or completely ensure heals take either 3 sec or 5 sec to launch...
Thin the Herd outgoing healdebuff, will probably be ignored compared to alternatives and opportunity cost.

Both dmg and debuff tree pet stances look somewhat "meh", but will probably just need to figure out which is less meh.

Remains to be seen how the new Lionine Frenzy works before can judge it too much, but will probably beat Thin the Herd.

Biggest changes, AoE tree
Spirit dmg stance, okay, sounds good.
Spirit ignore tactic, sounds solid, will need to determine whether it is truly needed or just extra "nice" (assuming aoe Spirit debuff of 360 from Sm, do you need a 50% Spirit resis ignore tactic if enemy has 20-30% spirit resis remaining - assuming no spirit debuff (pugging) it might be worth it, but if enemy is debuffed already (most organized warbands) the tactic might be questionable - or straight out overkill)
Morale drain, yay I guess, assuming some day Destro has morales worth draining, currently threat is mostly tank razes but might be good to slot this in case enemy side has at least one organized warband left playing.
Deafening Roar, looks like trash which makes no sense at all considering AoE stance makes you do Spirit already. And if you make argument "pugs need to maybe run random AoE dot while soloing", yeah well, pug-tier argument is the only way to reason why this tactic exists I guess.

Assuming that AP gain tactic I might not be as AP starved as before when running AoE WL with max AP regen from gear.

M4 looks interesting, though seems no pump spotted so falls into category of "maybe next year" assuming you ever make sense out of all the 72 class specific unique 15pts M4s that never see light of day.

No pet + no loner, I guess nothing new, will just need to pick +25% dmg from midtree before entering Whirling Spin.

Obviously less tanky than mara, and lacking crit buff tactic, but remains to be seen I guess. Probably less suicidal than BW or Slayer at least.

Will hope you change the Deafening Roar into something more sensible for AoE warband purposes so that it is not always instantly skipped. (why redesign a tactic into something that no one ever picks?)
ideas;
-mara like AP drain on some AoE tree ability?
-minor snare on some AoE ability?
-toughness, str or Init buff, straight mara mirror
-self crit buff like Mara
-old baiting strike self armor buff
-whatever that is better than current proposal

[FinduilAsuryan]

WL since 2007. I am no statgeek and so,however this looks like its good and gives Wl more viable opportunities. Looks good

[oaliaen]

Spoiler:

So..the cousing of AM has born. But in general i liked. No OP lion..lets see in the field.

PS: waiting the new choppa skill

Please amend your post to include your experience with the class and/or its mirror, your PoV, and then give your feedback. - ptp3

[normanis]

have white lion 40/40 byt never been in 6men. and my expierence pull in never works like marauder pull in ( i have marauder also)
i have question, white lion can pull in if pet do it, while mara can do it without pet and even in monstro handed, at moment if white lion goes to trained to stay u cant pull in. ( sorry this will be not to topic destro already have 3 pullers in and choppa gtdc is the best, while order now will be only engineer pull in what need cast time while choppa can run around and do it)
and for those who think now white lion is op i will tell u mara is still best tanky aoe dps overall because of monstro hand buff hp+ 10%armor and no need run tactics for it u can still use 50%more crit from brutality while whitelion cant because trained to stay dont allow it. mara for me is still 1st place
thx for wl changes see maby there will be nomore 8bw