Something I noticed on the forums

[Shalktonin]

Screaming about BWs was nice. Typical order pug wb has 2 tanks and 11 Bws, was really hard for destro frontline get them. They are just standing without guard, and sometimes also without permaheal. But this point is old now!
Bw morale was nerfed. Good!
There were promises to give to order something else.
There is a nice class called Slayer that should be fantastic in wb. Pity it was also nerfed, but still slayer has a fantastic setup for Wb and AoE damage. But who plays slayer?who cares?
Naaa better create and reinvent something new!

Slayer based warband comp without an aoe armor debuff? really?

Do you see better candidates in order side as melee damage? :/
You cannot demand to much from order side, order bias must be taken seriously

what do you have agains the Imperial Hunting dog. that is our strongest class. it is why destro whines so much...they can not hack the power of the dog....the dog is unstoppable...NERF the dog

[Luuca]

I'd like to think that the overwhelming Destro population during NA time would be grateful that some of us are still beating our heads against the zerg in 6-mans or otherwise. Without our meager attempts at resistance, they'd be taking empty keeps. But no.

I suggest Order in NA prime take a week off from ORvR. Grind SCs where numbers are only (usually) slightly in Destros favor.

Side Note: it may be anecdotal evidence, but in 5 of the 6 SCs I played last night, destru had at least a 1 player advantage, some with 2 players more.

As stated by the onemanzergleader, we are good at forming 6-mans...

Wonder if a week or two out of the lakes would completely kill NA prime or force the issue(s) with Order classes.. hmmm?

[Tom]

Seems to me a significant problem lies with the players themselves. Maybe too many order simply just aspire to be THE (oftentimes squishy) dps guy. Unfair assumption?

Having more aoe or ST dps for that matter isnt the issue, the refusal to play stabilizing supporting classes is. Generally one doesn't lose fights because of a lack of extra dps output.

[navis]

People will complain when they are losing often and it is not easy to continue playing once a realms balance crosses the line where succeeding becomes impossible.
Nothing new to old players and that is the great thing about scenarios.

However, it might be one of the single biggest problems to help keeping the playerbase more active (which is solving realm-balance issues (not balance)).

Balance has changed over the last while for two big reasons. Patches including some class re-work work, and evolution of playerbase.

Many players are now more commonly high renown and equipped well, making survival even harder.. Much worse than say, in early RoR T3 days.

[Onemantankwall]

Seems to me a significant problem lies with the players themselves. Maybe too many order simply just aspire to be THE (oftentimes squishy) dps guy. Unfair assumption?

Having more aoe or ST dps for that matter isnt the issue, the refusal to play stabilizing supporting classes is. Generally one doesn't lose fights because of a lack of extra dps output.

This ^ + lack of teamwork (one of the reasons being refusing to roll anything not derpdps) once again you wont win a rvr game trying to pvp, its only gonna get worse cause im starting to get the pugs in discord pretty soon might have to reroll order to change the tides... Ibs look fun since live, im not touching that sm ror made tho

[wonshot]

Do you see better candidates in order side as melee damage? :/
You cannot demand to much from order side, order bias must be taken seriously
[/quote]

I honestly cant tell if this is sarcastic or what you are trying to do with your posts. So I am replying to what I think you are saying.

Yes I can demand too much of order side, because it has nothing apart from raw damage advantage compared to destro side. And I am demanding it of the Devs.

Lets look at Order populating and attendance as of last few months, only on Wedsdays do order actually contest the destro numbers in eu primetime and that is due to two guilds having their main rvr night. However, based of tonights numbers Cntk didnt seem to have very healthy numbers and that is a trend i unfortuneatly can only agree to admitting. We are losing players to irl, burnout and disbelieve in the server because balance is right out of hand.

Are we still winning and coming out with top kills in every Raid night we have, sure. but it just not fun being forced to play BW because order has no other viable options. Where as Onemantankwall and other pug heroes have the luxary of fitting in any class on destro because they are viable one way or an other in a warband setting, where as order puggies are getting upset they get kicked out of organized warbands when they try to join with the milion singletarget loldps healers, ranged dps singletarget heroes and whatever else they expect to face destro outnumbering force with

[Onemantankwall]

Do you see better candidates in order side as melee damage? :/
You cannot demand to much from order side, order bias must be taken seriously

I honestly cant tell if this is sarcastic or what you are trying to do with your posts. So I am replying to what I think you are saying.

Yes I can demand too much of order side, because it has nothing apart from raw damage advantage compared to destro side. And I am demanding it of the Devs.

Lets look at Order populating and attendance as of last few months, only on Wedsdays do order actually contest the destro numbers in eu primetime and that is due to two guilds having their main rvr night. However, based of tonights numbers Cntk didnt seem to have very healthy numbers and that is a trend i unfortuneatly can only agree to admitting. We are losing players to irl, burnout and disbelieve in the server because balance is right out of hand.

Are we still winning and coming out with top kills in every Raid night we have, sure. but it just not fun being forced to play BW because order has no other viable options. Where as Onemantankwall and other pug heroes have the luxary of fitting in any class on destro because they are viable one way or an other in a warband setting, where as order puggies are getting upset they get kicked out of organized warbands when they try to join with the milion singletarget loldps healers, ranged dps singletarget heroes and whatever else they expect to face destro outnumbering force with
[/quote]
I open my wbs because its fun u make do with what you got cant tell u how short on healers we are, last night had 1 for whole wb lol idk why theres so much complaint yall whoop on me and my boys plenty plenty times, we just dont log off raged tho and keep on trucking

[Wam]

Order # are lacking because rvr balance is way off atm

Agreed... other order classes lack decent AOE & utility to be able to legitimately compete for a dps spot in a warband at the moment

BW already been nerfed, other classes need to be brought up to be competitive in a fair and balanced manner.

I say that as a leader on both sides, with destro being main...

Destro's playstyle as a warband is a bit more flexible and open

Order's playstyle is very pigeonholed, it needs a bit more choice to open up in my opinion... which would be better for their pug's atleast as atm they usually have rag tag classes/specs not suitable for warband.

Hopefully both sides meet more in the middle in the near future.

out of curiocity how appealing would it be for TUP to play on their Order chars with the current state of balancing, how big do you factor the difference to be? if we ignore the fact that your guild base is probably mostly destro loyalists. I am asking because I cant see you guys having much fun for long, only farming roleplayers and pugs. oh and cntk

I already know my words will fall on deaf ears but here goes...

I care for fights, I don't care for all the politics behind the scenes, I generally keep distant of all the drama... because i don't care for it and am too busy leading, but if people ask me respectfully for my opinion on things like you did im not going to lie even if its in my own interests to do so destruction wise if all i wanted to do was fight and farm order in uncompetitive enviroment.

But the farming continues until balance improves... lack of competition can be boring but being AAO police again is just a band aid (been there done that when there was a better balance) to bigger picture, so have to think longer term over short term at the moment.

"Players on the server shouldn't be the balance factor of the server"

Unfortunately so far Dev's are reluctant to balance order dps for large scale, it has negative impact on their realm population which is not great for server health but ultimately its their decision and direction... maybe if we farm order enough eventually the cries will make a more even playing field setup wise between realms ? (there's a reason only one dps is viable for order wb) but most likely will just be ignored which makes me feel bad for order and server health longer term... but it is what it is. As a player, and as a leader can only raise valid concerns and shine light on such things from time to time if its required or asked.

There is a balance issue, if its not going to get fixed, it causes disharmony and bad for order flakey morale which makes less action which is not ideal for server population after the last year its had. In a Two realm systems a balance issue is pretty bad because of the knock on effects it can have... where one side becomes dominant, weak side disappears, dominant side becomes bored and disappear... then both sides are ultimately weaker population than originally and are in a worse place overall.

I respect order groups fighting with one hand tied behind their back. They have very legitimate concerns in my opinion, its hard to understand why order dps classes don't get tweaked and boosted to furfil their roles and compete with BW's for dps spots in order warband for large scale orvr.

For any destro players to deny there is a problem, just show their bias to one realm and don't care about fairness or competition. If roles was reversed wouldn't you want the other side to admit there is issue and be fair to you? how the issue is addressed is up to the dev's, but please do not deny there is no issue.

If order becomes more attractive playstyle wise and not just BW spam... maybe we will re-evaluate our position and be AAO police again but what is the point if it just masks and prolongs a problem? hopefully things work out for the best and order get some love they deserve but i will hold my breathe until that happens and have to be brutal again to order in the mean time.

Im just glad its not my job to balance these things as its tricky and nigh impossible to make everyone happy, I understand it's delicate and a big undertaking if tweaks was ever implemented to boost order's large scale capabilities.

Cheers for reading
Wam

[Tesq]

Zerg problems
Wb vs wb balance problems
And classes balance

Are 3 separate things

Zerg: it have to do on focus of action , where and more importantly WHEN ppl should be by increasing the number of things equally hard to contend at the sane time (aka more flags at the same time which may open and close do the job while flags open and cloaaing on thwir own ir and keep to siege togheter dont) etc

Wb balance: you gave two basket and lots of models and colors, those colora must be put equaly in both basket dosent matter in which way you paint models so for exemple mara can have 2 color and wl 1 and wh another 1 thats fine...as ling both are good in wb.

Classes balance: class x have way too many things and some stuff need to be spread , removed or improved into class y.

Atm game suffer more from the first 2 since small scale.is handled a bit better here than in live which is where problem.number 3 raise more.

@wan yes oki you want order problems solved, you know that those problem solutions may not only pass from order buff but aswell from des nerf? Because all i see is buff order. here and there ...

I said nerf order kobs when it was time togheter with other ppl but now the same ppl should aswell aknowledge when something off and some des class need nerf instead not just buff order's onea..
I am thinking about wh/slayer/sw dmg havimg problem bypassing mara GoM for exemple.....yet not like i see many order buff proposal around or much des nerf proposal ....i had to be the one to make both the first wl aoe buff proposal (ap cost cut on SB rejected ) and gom nerf proposal (pending rew) just so that at least there could be a ln open discussion on it, the sich for order phy dps had reached disturbing point pre GtDC stuff and mara m2 nerf yet more mara than me could had made a proposal but nooooope .....i have to point fingers at THE guilds here with the big G , you want a balanced game in rvr? Stop fap on naked which elf and do sumthing uswfull... Pretend dev to.fix the game for you when imputs in this sense has been very poor from all exept in very particular cases when it was about high broken stuff. With proof being there in balance section in form of names putted on proposal. I know balance section didnt shine in past still big guils didnt even try......so i dont think bitch now about dev balance should now be allowed , big g guilds had 5 years is a bit late now. This is not necessary pointead at you tough yourself stated that you wanted to stay away from drama, well thats mean be out of the balance and therefore an error.....big g guilds didnt really putted their face on the forum like others common mortals...big g guilds minded their buisness most of the time. My guild leader in live went throught regarding balance till they banned him from live forum

[Arteker616]

Order # are lacking because rvr balance is way off atm

I like how this simple and true statement is simply ignored. A machine is the sum of its parts, and the Order machine has several parts that just don't fit right now while Destro is a big box of Legos - everything fits no matter how you stack it.

It will come around again. It always does.

But it's not a pendulum.. it's not population-driven. The realm orvr imbalance causes the population imbalance, not the other way around. The only way it will "come around" is if class changes occur that fix the issues.

Realm balance will never happen because people will always choose to go the easy route , aka the one who has the bigger blob . the same of always and wich havent changed on years and will not change ever because people always choose to play as lazy as possible .
Realm balance was dead on the momment the small bands wich used to flock to the side with aao got every possible enrfs to that playstile , and since we went from breaking to zerg motto of the early age of ror to embrance the zerg style and move on blows to chase 1 or 2 players like sharks with 40+ players .

to quote someone, you reap what you sow.
and on this case is a new generation of wb players wich when are not one and try small scale or scs only get anger and get pissed because my wb smasher super toon is gettin rekt on a sc ,,,, my class sucks , i need more buffs.... alt tab go forums to fight the good battle. or omg my super tuned balanced class wich could solo anyone 1vs1 is suddenly enrfed , alt tab go forums.
rinse and repeat.