From the first fight we know it's over.

[chookette]

we are players just like you, we have same goal just like you, acquire BIS gear... the difference is in assist and organising.

Cities can be fun in different ways, sometimes enemy has learn to play issues, that is not system fault, that is not dev fault... that is players fault and player can only improve from experience.

Some of the best fights we've had (not just against the top tier opposition) was against semi pug groups who was semi organised but positive and never gave up, they played the map and objectives really hard if they couldn't win the fight... you have defeatist mentality , you gave up after first fight... I've lost stage 1 2 and won a stage 3... ive lost stage 1, won stage 2, lost stage 3... you always give things a go with what you have.
(i remember one time we almost failed stage 1 on ic by 2 mins was very epic and hard and that was vs semi pugs)

Feels like you give up and then want to make changes to effect others gaming experience despite not putting your best effort in...

would you be making same post if you came across weak destro pug setup and won each stage convinclgy and got 3 gold bags? i dont think you would be on forums...

here is the difference between us, I play for fun and you play to win equipment.

I have destro characters and I don't play them anymore because the destro domination is much too strong for me to take pleasure. Playing by crushing others does not attract me.

[Wam]

what problems?

no system is perfect, and this system definately not perfect ... but what are the better solutions? i don't see any

huge: p, so he has a problem.

good go I no longer see any point in answering you you say everything and its opposite and you stay with marked pleasure in staying in this system that suits you we will never understand

you have failed to provide a adequete alternative though... you think through narrow minded scope and not big inclusive picture, you want segregation i know what you want, and i get tired of pug solo players asking for same thing ... and we all know why they want it, for easier rewards for easier farming... its nothing to do with fun or competition , its similar to asking for royal medals from kills for easier farm and motivation. Maybe invader medals and if warlord was seperate currency from kills i can understand, but city is mainstay for royal acquiring and thats why people should try to be more competitive there or not care at all and get what they get depending on mentality, but i see people put no effort in then complain says they care but with wrong attitude to improve. Instead of improve yourself in the system, you want to change it to suit your needs. I don't think leading cities at 2-5am is my needs, but ive been there done that bought the t shirt.

You want premades to be punished, teamwork and grouping punished in a MMO. You want everyone to be pug because you do not want to put in similar work as a premade, so your chances of win are increased...

System doesnt suit me, i missed last 3 cities, they are usually late NA or early EU... I prefer primetime EU but that is rarely ever going to happen. It's also not fun to organise for cities but somebodies got to do it. Waiting in que is also not fun not knowing your number and if pop will happen, because the QUE doesnt work like a normal QUE and people leapfrog one another... like i said its not perfect system. ive been leapfrogged and have leapfrogged also other guildies.

[chookette]

what problems?

no system is perfect, and this system definately not perfect ... but what are the better solutions? i don't see any

huge: p, so he has a problem.

good go I no longer see any point in answering you you say everything and its opposite and you stay with marked pleasure in staying in this system that suits you we will never understand

Well its hard to discuss with someone whos English write/read skills are poor. We agreed with u that system is not perfect but what we also said that we are not the ones to change it, therefore u should adopt to it and use it to ur best abilities, but clearly that demands some effort which u r not willing to put in, cuz its easier to whine on forums and blame others than urself.

Imagine, City Siege being a Dungeon Raid in WoW, if they fail in WoW theres no one else to blame than themselves...

yes it's true my english is not the best but i try to make myself understood.

We can speak in my mother tongue but I doubt you can make yourself understood.

Another problem with building wb. The wb have a stereotypical construction based on a meta idea. If my class is not part of this meta well then I cannot integrate a competitive roster. In this case, I am contaminated to play solo or play a class which I do not like.

In fact, it comes back to what I said where is the fun?



I don't blame anyone. As you have read so well, I started by congratulating the work accomplished. I am only responding to two of you who have strong ideas and who are coming out of cutting lessons on this subject under the pretext that nothing is perfect or that we can not do better.

[Wam]

we are players just like you, we have same goal just like you, acquire BIS gear... the difference is in assist and organising.

Cities can be fun in different ways, sometimes enemy has learn to play issues, that is not system fault, that is not dev fault... that is players fault and player can only improve from experience.

Some of the best fights we've had (not just against the top tier opposition) was against semi pug groups who was semi organised but positive and never gave up, they played the map and objectives really hard if they couldn't win the fight... you have defeatist mentality , you gave up after first fight... I've lost stage 1 2 and won a stage 3... ive lost stage 1, won stage 2, lost stage 3... you always give things a go with what you have.
(i remember one time we almost failed stage 1 on ic by 2 mins was very epic and hard and that was vs semi pugs)

Feels like you give up and then want to make changes to effect others gaming experience despite not putting your best effort in...

would you be making same post if you came across weak destro pug setup and won each stage convinclgy and got 3 gold bags? i dont think you would be on forums...

here is the difference between us, I play for fun and you play to win equipment.

I have destro characters and I don't play them anymore because the destro domination is much too strong for me to take pleasure. Playing by crushing others does not attract me.

The irony is rich

you probably dont even know server history and unaware of so many things

we are destro main... we swapped to order pre peon invasion and sov release... to help boost the weaker side, then order got its zerg back and we fought every destro premade in cities, we showed that order can be competitive at towards the upper level without mara morale drain nerf, and without morale bomb nerf... and we was far from most optimal as order is our alts and people slack, especially our tanks. So after order that was previously tumbling and losing population and being demoralized massively, got its feet back on the ground and we were content with fighting everyone, knowing other order guilds had probably geared up to be "more of a challenge" we went back home to destro to face guilds who had a gear advantage over us. (then morale drain on mara gets nerfed something i even asked about )

As for what side we play now, well we have put in alot of effort and commitment to destro over the years... but maybe we visit order again in the future, its very hard to say with all these balance changes and also other guilds swapping back and forth too. I don't see destro dominate that much, I see order zerg alot in orvr and win more in orvr and lose more in city, mostly due to ranged vs melee world and maps.

[chookette]

perfect, condescension returns again. So very well I know nothing and you know everything.

[Tillbeast]

System is not perfect, its actually really bad but you just have to grin and bear it. You can manipulate the queue to your favour as both destro and order. Just queue as late as possible on order to avoid the destro pre mades trying to garauntee themself a spot and a better chance of hitting the pug destro wbs just joining to desperatly get a city pop and as destro queue asap as you both pretty much garauntee you avoid order pre mades and get a spot pretty regularly.

You will never get the big guilds from either factions championing the pre made vs pre made cause as it is not what they want. PUGs equals easy gear. I can already hear the members of the big guilds disagreeing with me but has anyone ever seen a forum post from a member of the big guilds asking for pre made vs pre made to be made easier? No you will not.

[Wam]

huge: p, so he has a problem.

good go I no longer see any point in answering you you say everything and its opposite and you stay with marked pleasure in staying in this system that suits you we will never understand

Well its hard to discuss with someone whos English write/read skills are poor. We agreed with u that system is not perfect but what we also said that we are not the ones to change it, therefore u should adopt to it and use it to ur best abilities, but clearly that demands some effort which u r not willing to put in, cuz its easier to whine on forums and blame others than urself.

Imagine, City Siege being a Dungeon Raid in WoW, if they fail in WoW theres no one else to blame than themselves...

yes it's true my english is not the best but i try to make myself understood.

We can speak in my mother tongue but I doubt you can make yourself understood.

Another problem with building wb. The wb have a stereotypical construction based on a meta idea. If my class is not part of this meta well then I cannot integrate a competitive roster. In this case, I am contaminated to play solo or play a class which I do not like.

In fact, it comes back to what I said where is the fun?

if you are leader you can bring what you like Even magus or engi...

Welf/WH have some value, even if it got decreased a little with its aoe nerf, and SW in the right hands pre buffs could have some use but generally speaking most did not... there is alot of these classes which have probably not taken the time to get gear (via pve, or sc farm) to put themselves in useful position with the right support elements in place, compared to the main stay dps classes of their selective realms due to mechanic/tactic/gear (BW/sorc/Wl/Mara/SL/Choppa) who should find it alot easier to find a spot/group.

Fun varies from person to person, some people find winning fun, some people find break from leading is fun some people like the niche undesirable classes.

[Wam]

System is not perfect, its actually really bad but you just have to grin and bear it. You can manipulate the queue to your favour as both destro and order. Just queue as late as possible on order to avoid the destro pre mades trying to garauntee themself a spot and a better chance of hitting the pug destro wbs just joining to desperatly get a city pop and as destro queue asap as you both pretty much garauntee you avoid order pre mades and get a spot pretty regularly.

You will never get the big guilds from either factions championing the pre made vs pre made cause as it is not what they want. PUGs equals easy gear. I can already hear the members of the big guilds disagreeing with me but has anyone ever seen a forum post from a member of the big guilds asking for pre made vs pre made to be made easier? No you will not.

mate

take one second

take a step back

remove the emotion from your debate

think about it logically

THINK ABOUT THE LOGISTICS

first how do you define a "premade"

how many guilds can field a "premade"

how many alliances can field a "premade"

look at ranked scenario problems for 6 MAN (this is even worse for WARBAND LEVEL and time of day and time window LMAO)

and you WANT TO IMPOSE THIS ON 24 MAN... do you realise how messed up this is? this is griefing and thats why you get the response you do from us... i do not care if we get easy vs pugs or hard fought vs lob/mont ... I want to be treated as equal... you have to fight everyone eventually there is no hiding, no complaints only on self if bring weak setup. You want premades to not get pop, you want to avoid them so you get a easier time, instead of improve yourself and beat premades and yes non premade can beat a premade because ultimately we are just players.

[Detangler]

I really hate these topics where someone only posts half the story. Where's the composition on Order side? That may tell a lot about why it was so lopsided....

[Noslock]

System is not perfect, its actually really bad but you just have to grin and bear it. You can manipulate the queue to your favour as both destro and order. Just queue as late as possible on order to avoid the destro pre mades trying to garauntee themself a spot and a better chance of hitting the pug destro wbs just joining to desperatly get a city pop and as destro queue asap as you both pretty much garauntee you avoid order pre mades and get a spot pretty regularly.

You will never get the big guilds from either factions championing the pre made vs pre made cause as it is not what they want. PUGs equals easy gear. I can already hear the members of the big guilds disagreeing with me but has anyone ever seen a forum post from a member of the big guilds asking for pre made vs pre made to be made easier? No you will not.

The "big guilds" fight whatever they find in the istance without complaining every single time.People who bring shitty composition in an istance should not complain.We fight pug and we fight premades with the same spirit.Ofc vs pug the fight is quite boring most of the times but we cant pick the enemies and for the pugs equals gear i think in guild every main char is full sov by ages ...If you pug you should expect to lose .Don't wanna lose?Don't queue.

As for the part where destro premades queue first to avoid order premade thats total bullshit.Destro premade queue first simply cause with less numbers if you queue too late u wont get in the city...