Is guard too powerful?

[Battlefield]

Welcome to Warhammer. This is by design - small features that force players into grouping up.

When patience runs out the player leaves such a game....Welcome to Reality !

After 10 years I've seen almost all the arguments imaginable: nerf guard, remove guard, remove oathbuddy, nerf healing, remove absorb shields, remove warbands, remove group buffs, remove anything that makes it hard...

Players come, play, leave, such is life. Yet there is no other mass pvp mmo on the market to scratch that orvr itch - and I get irritated when I see propositions to make it generic easy mode 6button smasher that work in controlled (ranked) environment and fall apart when there are more than 40 people fighting at the same time.

We can talk about WHY orvr campaign in RoR feels stale and why every two years we see these... propositions on forum. One can't play this game like one'd play WoW or GW2 or moba or anything else. Play the game like it's Warhammer and follow what the game wants you to do instead of re-inventing wheel.

On a side note: there's this phenomenon where ppl leave other games because of issues and move on to new one - and try to make new one like the old one they've left behind...

Because it's Xrealm server and the flaws of the game are more noticeable

[Sinisterror]

Xrealm is not the issue. I had 2 accounts live and so did 75 % of the people who played the game. Making BO's actually important to take / defend / ninja. 24 aoe cap with 16 lvl vs rr80 is not helping. Pet classes basically not being usable in rvr because pet dont get heals/grp buffs and If the problem was lion getting on keep walls, who cares? these changes aint worth killing pet classes off. And this pathfinding thing made espesially WL even more less useful, what was wrong with how it worked? it was better than its now.

Adding; Live also had up to Warlord boots and gloves (maybe even sovereign?) dropping from rr 60 + players and there was currency called War Crest you could buy everything with and rr 70 or 80 + players had a chance to drop War Chest that had 2500 war crests which was ALOT so that kind of thing is a possibility to get drop always when you rvr so you could get best sets just by doing rvr. If i remember correct i only got 1 of them and that was from afk chosen on my dps warrior priest=) i was just about to ding 90 and with that i could buy doomflayer and rr 90 2hander. Still remembering that fondly, so random useful drops is a big psychological plus. Influence rewards are not utilised at all imo there should be at least 1 full set and few different proc wpns to get when you have zillions of influence on (insert zone)

[Ekundu01]

16 lvl vs rr80 is not helping.

Hey don't knock it that bolster buff is really good on some classes. DPS kotbs has never had it so good.

[NSKaneda]

Spoiler:

After 10 years I've seen almost all the arguments imaginable: nerf guard, remove guard, remove oathbuddy, nerf healing, remove absorb shields, remove warbands, remove group buffs, remove anything that makes it hard...

Players come, play, leave, such is life. Yet there is no other mass pvp mmo on the market to scratch that orvr itch - and I get irritated when I see propositions to make it generic easy mode 6button smasher that work in controlled (ranked) environment and fall apart when there are more than 40 people fighting at the same time.

We can talk about WHY orvr campaign in RoR feels stale and why every two years we see these... propositions on forum. One can't play this game like one'd play WoW or GW2 or moba or anything else. Play the game like it's Warhammer and follow what the game wants you to do instead of re-inventing wheel.

On a side note: there's this phenomenon where ppl leave other games because of issues and move on to new one - and try to make new one like the old one they've left behind...

Because it's Xrealm server and the flaws of the game are more noticeable

True to some extent but even live struggled with xrealm issue - as long as there's easy mode to get gear people will choose that 9 times out of 10.
Then there's the issue of player attitude for lack of a better word: 7 tanks in scenario. One guard. DPS numbers obsession on tanks/dps/healers (and paper thin tanks that stack armour and melt to basic dots). Almost completely neglected HTL/disrupt game. Next to no /assist trains (but it's getting better, one day at a time). Excel sheets calculations that fall apart in actual fights (best laid plans, eh? ). One size fits all builds and so on...

The real hit on population came with 2nd season and balancing postponed till the season ends - which is totally understandable from development pov but it made a lot of ppl quit the game till something changes (sure, we lost like 300 ppl due to NB ban. Not great, not terrible)... We should see numbers go up in September/October if I'm not mistaken.

[Hodds]

Do you really think so? it makes a common player just a mob !

Welcome to Warhammer. This is by design - small features that force players into grouping up.

When patience runs out the player leaves such a game....Welcome to Reality !

p.s
I did not play in RoR from March 2020 and i am back in june 2021 , today i have thoughts to leave it again but i have been here since this server was created.

While i was not here at the server start, i also am back after about a year break for about the last couple months, having a hard time logging on now and thinking another break is comming,

[Alubert]

I was thinking about the game, especially scenarios and cities and about the reason why it is often so one-sided. Either a complete stomp or getting stomped.

One reason I identified might be the tanks guard. Whenever there are guards around it becomes very frustrating to kill anything.

It's not the guard alone, it's the combination of people stacking -crit, tough, wounds, use detaunt, get bubbles and heals from healers, use their own bubbles, hots, disrupt/parry/block, cleanse, abilities, morals like bellow or knock downs, stagger, interrupts, punts. There is such a great amount of defensive tools but the dps classes on the other hand have very little to counter that or break through.

However, the guard seems to have the most impact on damage mitigation. Especially dps class with lots of smaller hits like the dot classes suffer the most from all that defensive stuff. Their damage is being reduced to almost zero while running maxed glass cannon builds.

With the change of how guards works for 2h tanks it has become even more powerful. They can guard the dps and add a good amount to the assist damage.

I think we are at the point now where melees are too powerful and one of the reasons is guard for sure. Take WEs/WHs for example. They are ment to be solo killers and have a lot of tools to survive solo. Now add guard, bubbles, heals, morals and all the stuff I mentioned before to that and you have a pretty much unkillable WE/WH that is wrecking everything in their way.

How do you wanna kill such target as dps? You won't unless you have all the same tools on your side. No guard? You are screwed...

Thus guard is having a huge impact on the outcome of fights. Everybody knows that. They know that they wont win city fights when there are not enough tanks. They know they need tanks... what they might not know is that it is mainly guard on top of bellow, CC and pushing power that makes them win the fight.

From my point of view guard doesn't have enough weaknesses. Tanks barely suffer from guarding someone and dps have no counter to that.

Maybe they should think about reducing the amount of mitigation from guard or add a weakness to it, like strike through for ranged dps or something like that.

What do you think about this?

PS: please try to explain why yes or no

Because it is a team play game and not a game like the others.
Guard is the basis of all battle mechanics in RoR.
I don't know where people with such stupid ideas come from.
To kill in RoR you need cooperation of every archetype. Guard, punts, buffs, debuffs, CC.Maybe your and people like you experience comes from hopeless games like wow, archage, TESO, Albion ect (where practically all classes are hybrid).
THIS IS SPARTA!!!.... sry this is RoR!!!
If the mechanics of this game and its basics are beyond you then look for another game and don't piss off people who have been playing it for many years. And still playing such an old game precisely because something like 50% dmg from Guard ability is transferred to tank.

[Alubert]

guard is the most stupid invention i've ever seen in a mmorpg. was made, i guess, to make tanks "halfway" usefull (for example no one in wow spec tank for pvp due to loldamage and no protection compared to other specs.

For example maybe go back to wow?
Guard is the best idea in team play game.
Its not trash like wow where all are dps.

[vobex16]

That feeling when premade boys scared if guard will be nerfed

[Justina]

That feeling when premade boys scared if guard will be nerfed

Im actually a bit surprised over the voting result so far. I think that people either not understood the point that it would be more fun with less guard mitigation or it is people voting that see their personal advantage in having strong guard as it is - people who usually play in setups. It might have to do with the latter one since the people on the forum here are usually not casuals but more try hards.

[Caduceus]

I think the problem might lie with healers being way too tanky, not being in line with the risk-reward balance of other classes. A possible reason for this, is that healers do not need much willpower to heal sufficiently and therefore have all the space to stack defensive stats.