1 WE vs 4 WH

[Skullgrin]

Chosen doesn't need any balance changes to make him stronger, he feels great when compared to 2h kotbs, who is a completely dead class. As long as Relentless has spirit damage, chosen should never get buff

Umm, Relentless doesn't do spirit damage unless you use a use up a tactic slot with Oppressing Blows. And with the current meta of stacking 'less to be crit' abilities, the tactic is fairly sub-optimal at this point. So, I guess what you're saying is that Chosen DO need a buff, right?

And yea, Knight has suffered from many of the same nerfs, but they were always more defense oriented, whereas the nerfs are more blatantly obvious for the offense oriented 2H Chosen. Both classes could do with some love tho. I could go through and list all of the nerfs that I've seen over the years (including at least one of them that I think I'm personally responsible for), but all that would do is stir up forum drama and possibly earn me a time out. So I'm not gonna do it.

It's much easier. Join a group, be more powerful than solo. The best, it works with every class on every gear level.

Heh, no one solo looks at a trio or larger group and thinks, "Wow those guys are really good!"

What I usually think is "Geez, do they really need that many healers just to have a chance against a solo player?' or "Man, they suck so bad they need multiples of the same class to cover up how bad they are individually..."

But to each his own, just know you'll never gain the same amount of respect by hiding in a group.

[Belanoite]

I wait for the day Devs will see the mess they did with WE/WH and nerf these classes to the root!

wh does not need any serious nerfs, all the bugs need to be fixed, this will already be enough for balance, although of course this will not suit anyone and if wh kills someone, the whining will continue

Hopefully they will also acknowledge and address all the incremental nerfs made to Chosen over the years and undo some of the worst of them, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. At this point i just want to see the WH 5 tactic bug addressed. It is painfully obvious how game breaking it is when you see it used in solo combat. Watched a WH go from 10% health to almost fully healed in about 10 seconds last night...

Chosen doesn't need any balance changes to make him stronger, he feels great when compared to 2h kotbs, who is a completely dead class. As long as Relentless has spirit damage, chosen should never get buff

I disagree.
The smoke ability is one of the most appellative of the game, plus the armor debuff aoe and the eternal stealth. And WH/WE's ambush became extremelly toxic. I have friends that left game after being farmed by the same WHs. Even Zarbix got frustrated after being farmed by WEs once!

Perhaps if more classes could have some tactic to spot stealth like engie has...

Anyway, if I'd classify the classes by tiers, WH/WE would be the S tier by far, followed by Slayer, WL and CHoppa in A tier.

[oldsaltie]

out of curiosity whats is the green guy with shield self buff in your buffhead?

[inoeth]

creme de la creme of high rank WH noobs....
some of the low ranks even do a better job lol

nerf WL

[reynor007]

Not yet seen in game, no video of WH which "spreads" 4 WE lvl 40 rr 80...

WH is much easier to kill 4 we, playing wh most of the time, I killed the enemy in the knockdown time, you have 12 sec parry and anathema, the main thing is to hold the position
but WE, it’s incredibly difficult to kill 2+ wh, I was often killed within 3-5 seconds and I didn’t have time to do anything even if I attacked first

[reynor007]

Umm, Relentless doesn't do spirit damage unless you use a use up a tactic slot with Oppressing Blows. And with the current meta of stacking 'less to be crit' abilities, the tactic is fairly sub-optimal at this point. So, I guess what you're saying is that Chosen DO need a buff, right?

And yea, Knight has suffered from many of the same nerfs, but they were always more defense oriented, whereas the nerfs are more blatantly obvious for the offense oriented 2H Chosen. Both classes could do with some love tho. I could go through and list all of the nerfs that I've seen over the years (including at least one of them that I think I'm personally responsible for), but all that would do is stir up forum drama and possibly earn me a time out. So I'm not gonna do it.

I have a slightly different idea of classes
if i start listing all kotbs nerfs all destro got them less than 1 order class

about the chosen one, compared to live, he lost only crippling strike, and Oppression 2h. In exchange, I received Relentless spirit dmg, which is simply incredibly strong, and Daemonclaw, which is combined with other effects, which is also very strong. if you don't take Oppressing Blows you will probably lose 90% of your opponents.

what did you get in return for all your nerfs kotbs, hmm...
elem dmg blazing blade and Detaunts are dispelled automatically when applied to you. which is absolutely useless
and so, runefang nerf, vigilance nerf, all elem atack Path of Glory nerf, 10% crit chance "press the atack" nerf, On Your Guard nerf, stay focused nerf, Emperor's Champion nerf, shatter confidence nerf

probably yes, up is needed exactly chosen

[Sulorie]

I disagree.
The smoke ability is one of the most appellative of the game, plus the armor debuff aoe and the eternal stealth. And WH/WE's ambush became extremelly toxic. I have friends that left game after being farmed by the same WHs. Even Zarbix got frustrated after being farmed by WEs once!

Perhaps if more classes could have some tactic to spot stealth like engie has...

Anyway, if I'd classify the classes by tiers, WH/WE would be the S tier by far, followed by Slayer, WL and CHoppa in A tier.

Nobody should waste a tactic slot for such a tactic but I am sure plenty people would actually do it.
In such a case the tactic should be visible in buff bar, that you don't invite such a player by accident.
Classes with high init quite often see stealth classes sneaking around them or short before they attack.
If you keep being farmed by WH/WE, you should change the way you play.

[Akalukz]

The current issue is their healing, either through regen or through broken tactics. The squishy class should be squishy. I mean that's the offset of the damage. Take away the squish, you have an imba class. Everyone can agree on that. But it's not a we/wh problem it's an RoR problem. Many high-level characters are extremely tanky yet deal good damage. There isn't much of a trade-off.

EDIT: Damage should break stealth, at least after a certain amount. If entering combat, health drops to 97% break stealth.

[Sulorie]

The current issue is their healing, either through regen or through broken tactics. The squishy class should be squishy. I mean that's the offset of the damage. Take away the squish, you have an imba class. Everyone can agree on that. But it's not a we/wh problem it's an RoR problem. Many high-level characters are extremely tanky yet deal good damage. There isn't much of a trade-off.

EDIT: Damage should break stealth, at least after a certain amount. If entering combat, health drops to 97% break stealth.

So anyone spamming random aoe will remove stealth? You even thought about it? Your idea isn't even new btw, it is just bad.

How little damage you deal to them for regen to matter? 500-600 regen every 4 sec is not enough to keep you alive in normal fights. It is sufficient to make you outlast an opponent, when you combine it with potions/skills, unless they invest as much as you into self-sustain. Regen is only useful for a certain niche of solo players, who are looking for the thrill, as you never know, when some warband comes around the corner to add in your "duel".
When you want to solo in rvr, build your char accordingly or accept you will be at a disadvantage against anyone with more preparation. Anyone else is supposed to play in groups or warbands.

[Akalukz]

The current issue is their healing, either through regen or through broken tactics. The squishy class should be squishy. I mean that's the offset of the damage. Take away the squish, you have an imba class. Everyone can agree on that. But it's not a we/wh problem it's an RoR problem. Many high-level characters are extremely tanky yet deal good damage. There isn't much of a trade-off.

EDIT: Damage should break stealth, at least after a certain amount. If entering combat, health drops to 97% break stealth.

So anyone spamming random aoe will remove stealth? You even thought about it? Your idea isn't even new btw, it is just bad.

How little damage you deal to them for regen to matter? 500-600 regen every 4 sec is not enough to keep you alive in normal fights. It is sufficient to make you outlast an opponent, when you combine it with potions/skills, unless they invest as much as you into self-sustain. Regen is only useful for a certain niche of solo players, who are looking for the thrill, as you never know, when some warband comes around the corner to add in your "duel".
When you want to solo in rvr, build your char accordingly or accept you will be at a disadvantage against anyone with more preparation. Anyone else is supposed to play in groups or warbands.

You spew a bunch of malarkie sometimes. The risk/reward is out of balance on these classes and everyone knows it. Answer this, why is we/wh the only mele in Light armor?

EDIT: Oh yeah, 600 ever 4 seconds so little, please remind me again what the cooldown timer for a 1500 heal pot is? 12 seconds? 3 Mins? i am a bit confused. Or better yet, whats the cooldown timer of a 3600 HoT potions? Probably 50 seconds or so? oh wait....