Wait, WP melee gets no gap closer? (in a ranged kite meta, lol)

[Farrul]

The same issue that's plagued the server since forever - you're not "supposed" to play in a small enough scale to require a personal toolkit anyway. Or, well, that's the development goal at least.

Actually let's be clear about this one thing for further discussions( i've seen this point has been mentioned previously in the thread).

The ability to close the gap, is not utility for a specific context( solo, or group etc).

It's a general need of a melee spec/class in order to stay competetive in the game.

I.e a melee gap closer will be as useful in a warband, group, solo or regardless of context, is a must have tool for every close combat spec to even stay competetive vs the whole spectrum of ranged classes, kiters etc.

[Sinisterror]

The same issue that's plagued the server since forever - you're not "supposed" to play in a small enough scale to require a personal toolkit anyway. Or, well, that's the development goal at least.

Actually let's be clear about this one thing for further discussions( i've seen this point has been mentioned previously in the thread).

The ability to close the gap, is not utility for a specific context( solo, or group etc).

It's a general need of a melee spec/class in order to stay competetive in the game.

I.e a melee gap closer will be as useful in a warband, group, solo or regardless of context, is a must have tool for every close combat spec to even stay competetive vs the whole spectrum of ranged classes, kiters etc.

There was a time in RoR that gave Charge for Dok/Wp as 15pts in wrath/torture tree instead of morale 4. But this was back when there was no shield and dps dok/wp had all the goodies ive mentioned in this thread so it was quickly deemed too powerful and removed. Best option atm would be to give 2H Wp 25-33% chance to snare 30% for 3s with Judgement.

I mean best option if they do nothing else like revert judgement/fok changes or make Divine strike/Consume essence use Ap and give Resourses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kkJB1gIgfw Also Wrath Abilities did 40% More dmg and Torture did 25% more dmg and you lost 5 rf every or two second but you could use Ap based grp melee heals so i would much rather have that than what we have now.

[Zxul]

I always knew the mirror class, Dok had a very potent group snare ( celerity of covenant)

Not sure what else to add, speechless really.

20% ( or 35% with tactic) is too low and will suffer vs kiters.

Not sure what else to add, speechless really.

Anyways, so what does this little comment of yours have to do with mine? Unless you're saying DoK gap closer is so bad that WP does not deserve to have one back ( which they , like all melee of course do deserve to perform their task as melee)?

Glad that you managed to figure out that dok gap closer is currently solo play speaking is indeed bad enough that it is useless for all practical purposes, which is one reason why you don't see dps doks roaming except occasional 40/40 one in merc trying before realizing things and rerolling.

[Alubert]

Then why wp have exalted defence and dok dont have?
WaR/Ror is uniqe and we dont need 100% mirrors.

What does exalted defences for a book spec WP (healer) have to do with the topic of a melee WP (melee) lacking gap closer?

WP used to have a snare, so your whole comment is actually wrong, both ''mirrors'' had a snare and no, they do not need to be 100% mirrored ( which they weren't either).

Are you for real?
You can't consider such matters having without paying attention to the classes as a whole.
Classes have their advantages and disadvantages.
Fortunately, we do not have accurately reflected classes on the two sides of the conflict.
Just accept that dps dok is better than dps wp.
Just as wp crushes dok in heal spec.

[Nameless]

This is a team game, it is not supposed all classes to have all the tools possible.

[Rapzel]

The same issue that's plagued the server since forever - you're not "supposed" to play in a small enough scale to require a personal toolkit anyway. Or, well, that's the development goal at least.

Actually let's be clear about this one thing for further discussions( i've seen this point has been mentioned previously in the thread).

The ability to close the gap, is not utility for a specific context( solo, or group etc).

It's a general need of a melee spec/class in order to stay competetive in the game.

I.e a melee gap closer will be as useful in a warband, group, solo or regardless of context, is a must have tool for every close combat spec to even stay competetive vs the whole spectrum of ranged classes, kiters etc.

The issue with your statement here is that it is competitive, except in 1vs1 against ranged and that it's bad in WB blobbing.
You struggling against rSH and Shaman in a 1vs1 doesn't justify a massive buff.

[Farrul]

I always knew the mirror class, Dok had a very potent group snare ( celerity of covenant)

Not sure what else to add, speechless really.

Yes, take a sentence out of context then paste it into an irrelevant paragraph and then make it appear as a contradiction, of course no surprise coming from you

Glad that you managed to figure out that dok gap closer is currently solo play speaking is indeed bad enough that it is useless for all practical purposes, which is one reason why you don't see dps doks roaming except occasional 40/40 one in merc trying before realizing things and rerolling.

At least DoK has one which as mentioned is super good in a group context, hence why a buff is only suggested for the dps/dual wield spec and in no way or shape should it enhance covenant of celerity's group utility ( that one may already be too powerful in fact). Do not intrepet that as an intended solo buff, it is not.

[Farrul]

Are you for real?
You can't consider such matters having without paying attention to the classes as a whole.
Classes have their advantages and disadvantages.
Fortunately, we do not have accurately reflected classes on the two sides of the conflict.
Just accept that dps dok is better than dps wp.
Just as wp crushes dok in heal spec.

Yes, are you?

This has nothing to do with dps Dok vs dps WP, not even sure how you arrive at that conclusion.

This topic is about a melee specialization, which obviously need to perform in melee( that means close range) but without an important basic tool to perform this task effectively, unlike every other melee specialization in this game since the tool it used to have, was removed.

[Zxul]

I always knew the mirror class, Dok had a very potent group snare ( celerity of covenant)

Not sure what else to add, speechless really.

Yes, take a sentence out of context then paste it into an irrelevant paragraph and then make it appear as a contradiction, of course no surprise coming from you

So you don't even know how to use forum quote function, still within my expectations of you.

Glad that you managed to figure out that dok gap closer is currently solo play speaking is indeed bad enough that it is useless for all practical purposes, which is one reason why you don't see dps doks roaming except occasional 40/40 one in merc trying before realizing things and rerolling.

At least DoK has one which as mentioned is super good in a group context, hence why a buff is only suggested for the dps/dual wield spec and in no way or shape should it enhance covenant of celerity's group utility ( that one may already be too powerful in fact). Do not intrepet that as an intended solo buff, it is not.

Let me enlighten you to that interesting thing called logic. Where do you think is that "dps/dual wield spec" is used, except solo? And how does it works together with "as an intended solo buff, it is not"?

Btw in case you have wondered, only dps dok in sc premades is snb healer with a bit extra dmg compared to chalice dok.

[Farrul]

The issue with your statement here is that it is competitive, except in 1vs1 against ranged and that it's bad in WB blobbing.
You struggling against rSH and Shaman in a 1vs1 doesn't justify a massive buff.

A melee specialization without a gap closer can never be balanced relative to other melee specializations that do have one, for obvious reasons since it need to be in melee to be effective. It will always be missing a basic important tool which others that perform the role get.

There is nothing else in the toolkit of the dps WP that would justify this specialization not having one, whilst others get it. Hence why in fact WP dps used to have one as well.

Again this point of 1vs1 is irrelevant, having a gap closer is a necessary tool for melee dps in all contexts of the game.