The new player experience in a nutshell

[ScreenFofoBan]

The question is: should fresh 40s be in underwear? I feel that right now we have too many sets that are outleveled quite fast. If the set for rr45 was on the powerlevel of vanquisher, fresh 40s would already have a much better time. Vanq is also the required set for ranked, so it would make sense to make it accessible from early on.

in my honest experience, i found the healer and tank class already pretty quickly operational even in not so good stuff, ive done full GB/Crypt/BS ward grind all in ruin gear which is very very easy to get and once u hit vanq (58rr) u are good to go to sov directly without any other gear in between, u will just perform in any content without trouble, but i agree for the DPS archetype its a bit another story, it feel like they have it harder to complete their role with the same gear but overall once u hit vanq and mix it well with maybe bloodlord cloak/genesis or lotd cloak jewel/genesis u will have enough killpower to perform but keep in mind than all healer and DPS have detaunt which basically make them tank anything in 1v1 which is normal and how the game is intended to work.

[Buby90]

T1 is super fun, T1 and T2 scenarios are super fun and then there's T2 RvR where you're just worthless canon fodder because of an unreasonable high gear powercreep.

As a new player, the same thing happens to me. Up to level 16, it's super fun, but after that, it's incredibly boring. The scenarios are unbalanced; playing against five healers is pointless. And in RVR, being melee, I feel completely irrelevant.

[Ragnaroek93]

does it ever cross ur mind that this game is exactly how it intended to be and its just a "you" problem that, maybe maybe, (maybe) u dont like how gear progression are handled and should play something else? when i see ur comment it sound like the game is unplayable which is complet lie...

Even yourself can obviously see many player succeed to lvl up their char to end game gear, at their own rythm, in that same condition u are so why u couldnt do it ? as i highly suspect from new player, u lack knowledge and u are playing it wrong and solo most of the time, u complain about premade but do you understand YOU can be the premade if u dare invest few min to speak to people and few right click/invit?
u actually think this is like WoW, but its not at all, its a 24 class game without complete mirror, class are unbalanced particulary in 1v1/small scale and its all intended cause the balance is done for 24v24 mainly as stated many time by devs

i dont want to sound rude, but if the only thing u ever play is an AM and hes barely 40 then sorry but u speak without knowing 75% of the game and other class mechanic, at least roll each role (dps/tank/heal) to 40 (which is pretty fast with the SC/RvR session) and then u will have a bit more deep reflexion about what is happening around you and why and how to react, and if u truly think fresh 40 in underwear should be able to instantly compete equally with fully geared player who trained for years then i confirm u are in the wrong game and it never been this way ever.

Stop lying, I've never said that it's impossible, I've said that it's unfun, frustrating and completely unnecessary which is a very valid argument.
It's not WoW but it's heavily inspired by WoW and therefore it gets compared with it. The UI looks similar to WoW, the classes are similar, the gameplay is similar except that there's less button bloat, the vertical progression is similar. And while I haven't played the game for long I don't have the impression that the classes are balanced in 24v24 - SW and both stealth classes seem to have a much harder time getting into good WBs because they don't do well there for example.

You do actually sound rude and try to gaslight me into becoming a RoR lexicon by indirectly claiming that I'm (and every other new player) just bad at the game, don't press buttons, don't know my spells, don't have any addons or have idle time between my gcds, bad positioning or whatever. You do realise that the single most important mechanic which affects your performance as healer is raw hps (and for dps it's dps or burst damage for burst classes), right? If your hps isn't good then no amount of positioning, cc, mechanics, detaunts, knockbacks will make up for it. On the other side having good hps can make up for a lot.

And no, I don't demand to be equal to a rr80 after reaching level 40 but I expect to not be wet noodle either compared to it. 10-15 ilvl difference would be totally fine, you wouldn't be competitive but still have some impact instead of being... well... canon fodder. And just having a lot of playtime doesn't make you automatically good at the game.

T1 is super fun, T1 and T2 scenarios are super fun and then there's T2 RvR where you're just worthless canon fodder because of an unreasonable high gear powercreep.

As a new player, the same thing happens to me. Up to level 16, it's super fun, but after that, it's incredibly boring. The scenarios are unbalanced; playing against five healers is pointless. And in RVR, being melee, I feel completely irrelevant.

Yeah, melee seems to even harder. As ranged you can at least make decent renown by zergsurfing but melee seems to be out of luck... probably only playing scenarios until 40 and then not entering RvR until you have PvE gear seems to be the way to go, which is ironically because PvE focused games usually allow you to gear for PvP from well... PvP but this PvP game apparantly wants you to gear with PvE instead...

[iPeriphery]

There are people who started when server was launched. Naturally, they have quite advanced characters and they know them way better than you know yours.

I always level my toons in scenarios all the way to 40. Only then I join RVR. And until I hit RR60 I do not expect them to perform. Support - yes, perform - no.

The thing is that the other person doesn't need to know their character better in order to win, he simply just need to be not afk. It's literally impossible to lose with a 30 ilvl advantage over your opponent.

If you don't expect your characters to perform that's up to you. I do expect to perform in a RvR game and so do many other new players. And unfortuneately for RoR it doesn't have a monopoly on the market and people can choose another MMO which provides them a less frustrating experience.

We ask a new player to suffer as cannon fodder through RvR until they hit rank 40, then do 15+ hours of PvE (if you include finding a group) to get gear that's even remotely competitive, but even in sentinel/red-eye a DPS has only ~60% of the damage output of a BiS character.

We veterans are used to it and accept it as normal because it's been like this for so long, but it's not normal in modern gaming. The gear gap was a huge impediment to the growth and sustainability of the game during the Mythic era, and it's a huge impediment to the growth and sustainability of RoR.

Exactly, this isn't normal. I'd wonder how many people would play the game if newcomers wouldn't get bullied out of the game once they reach level 40. I bet the numbers would be shocking lol.

We ask a new player to suffer as cannon fodder through RvR until they hit rank 40, then do 15+ hours of PvE (if you include finding a group) to get gear that's even remotely competitive, but even in sentinel/red-eye a DPS has only ~60% of the damage output of a BiS character.

We veterans are used to it and accept it as normal because it's been like this for so long, but it's not normal in modern gaming. The gear gap was a huge impediment to the growth and sustainability of the game during the Mythic era, and it's a huge impediment to the growth and sustainability of RoR.

Eh. Same people complaining about the gear gap now will be complaining about lack of "meaningful progression" later.

And, yeah, DPS having to suffer a bit is fine because the entire game is built around them. Once they do get to "end game" gear, they can pretty much run around any way they want and collect their crests/renown while support classes that were more useful at lower RR are nearly as dependent on them at end game as they were back when they were fresh 40/40.

And my advice for new players is roll a support class until you get the hang of the game, get in a guild/make some friends and then you can go live your best pew pew fantasy. Levelling up DPS is ridiculously easy (with a couple of exceptions) once you know how the game works.

Meaningful progression was one of the arguments for introducing a massive powercreep in PvP gear in WoW Shadowlands and everybody hated it (it wasn't as bad as this however since the gear was gated behind arena rating instead of playtime). Now there's little to no PvP gear progression and there are still hundreds of thousands of players who play every season for elite transmogs, weapon illusions and mounts. Almost nobody complains about a lack of meaningful progression.

And my main is an AM and it doesn't feel better in RvR than the two other dps classes which I've tried out. And I'd argue that I'd rather have a dps in my team who underperforms than a healer who doesn't have enough hps...

Honestly I couldn't have said it any better than this. Nobody has fun getting absolutely dunked on every time they log on, and honestly it's not fun shitting on every opponent with no challenge either. This is a PVP game, and PVPer's obviously enjoy PVP because the THRILL of facing a challenging opponent and coming out on top. I argue that all of these impediments mentioned above are not serving the game or its longevity in any way shape or form.

I think right now that WH:ROR has a new wave of potential and visibility on Youtube that could really be HUGE for the game if taken advantage of properly.

Ask yourself this one simple question. In every PVP MMO you've ever played, what was the one thing that eventually killed it? The answer is simple.

In every PVP MMO I've ever played, the main thing that ended up killing it was the lack of players to play against. And do you want to know the main reason why that happened?

It's 9/10 times because of people getting bored of getting absolutely **** on or get bored of absolutely shitting on other people with 0 challenge.

What causes this can be multifactoral. But here are a few of the main things.

1. That the grind required to get the gear to become able to finally play the PVP content you signed up for in the first place isn't worth the time investment.
2. The gap between faction population is too unbalanced for a consistently enjoyable play session
3. That the classes or racial passives that the other faction has (dependant on the game) are better than one other faction.

And in this game you seem to have all 3 of these issues. Not to mention many more problems that could easily be solved in time if such complaints haven't fallen on deaf ears.

I love the PVP in this game and I see so much untapped potential, but it seems that it isn't being utilized properly.

One of the main things that should be used to draw in more players are the similarities between Classic WoW's combat and Warhammer RoR's.

(Market the fk out of these 2 things and you would have a much larger playerbase. People are desperate for a good MMO (which won't be for a while until AoC comes out) let alone a good PVP experience in an MMO. Don't throw away your strengths!)

One of the main things that is better than WoW that Warhammer does well is the 1-15 experience which allows you to hop in without the BS Gear grind that most MMO's have required to be relevant in PVP.

(Focus more on this! There is a reason why Battle Royales and MOBA's became so HUGE! Nobody has the time to sit around doing useless bullshit instead of the content they really want to focus on)

The main Issue is that once you hit 16 and again at 40, the game throws it's main incentive OUT the window for absolutely no reason.

This is supposed to be a PVP game.... Let us PVP without the BS filler that doesn't help player retention. Leveling up in of itself should be the only journey required.

I really hope to see some player retention additions added ASAP because that effects literally everything else.

[Rabenfeder]

Yes, I agree with @Lyra 2. Many newcomers and even older players in the game don't know a lot of useful things. Most of the clues could be found in this forum, but it's so crowded that even Tzeench's library looks small in comparison. Those behind this game, who have kept it alive all these years, are doing a great job, and I have the utmost respect for them. All I wish for is a community that's a bit more helpful to beginners and those who don't know anything, and an improvement in PvE so that even as a glass cannon you can experience the story more easily without having to die your way through it.

[Aethilmar]

So, assuming my adding skills aren't horribly off, here are the crests of the first three "T4" sets:

Annihilator - 352
Conqueror - 854
Vanquisher - 1691

The weekly quest by itself gives you 150.
The weekly scenario gives something less but, quite frankly, isn't worth the time for undergeared folks. You should do something else after you hit T4. Feel free to do them in T2-T3 though.

I think the the following is right for bags:
Gold bags give 40
Purple give 32
Blue give 24?
Green give 16
White give 8

If I were a person with limited play time (lets say an hour a day), no guild to help me and wanted to be bloody minded about maximizing my crests I would do the following:

Log on and hope there are three zones open (usually are or at least two):
1. Go to the zone with no enemy (or less enemies) and run three boxes. That should be enough to get you contribution for a bag roll. Go to the more populated zones.
2. Go to the zone(s) with more population and try to run some boxes and pile on in any fights where your side has an advantage.
3. Participate in any siege take/defense you can. This may even supercede step 1. Winning a keep is, in particular, very good for completing the weekly.

Now you have contribution in all zones and are eligible for bag rolls. Feel free to log off whenever you want. Your contribution will count when the zone is capped one way or the other and you'll get a bag roll. You'll also have helped out your realm.

By the end of the week you should have at least one of each bag and the 150 from the zone quest plus a few other random crests (lets say 20 depending on your class and time). This will get you 120 + 150 + 20 = 310 crests per week. You do this while you are levelling from 17 to 40 then you will, most likely have 1200 to 2000 crests by the time you ding 40 and lose your bolster even if you buy the sub-Annihilator sets.

This is my solo method for gaining crests when I level up a character. With a guild or a regular group you will get even more. And I'm 90% sure this isn't even "optimal" and yet I know you still have enough to knock out the first two sets and are well on the way to Vanquisher b/c this is what I do and that is how it works.

So, yes, could we just jump to Vanquisher has has been suggested? Sure. Why not? Doesn't matter to me. Would be nice for my alt-itis.

In the meantime, this is how you can "organically" get more crests for your play time to get into Vanquisher fairly quickly which is pretty much where all classes start to feel relatively good.

And, of course, this doesn't even take into account PVE for which I am not an expert but I have seen stated repeatedly lets you skip a bunch of sets altogether.

[Yaliskah]

T1 is super fun, T1 and T2 scenarios are super fun and then there's T2 RvR where you're just worthless canon fodder because of an unreasonable high gear powercreep.

Your opinion suggests that all the players in your faction, in a game involving dozens of players, are all the smaller players vs. the bigger fish in the opposing faction.

Point is there are low level on both side, who became HL after some time. According it is not a solo game, joining a structure is an option, but still an heavy one for some obvious reasons .

Now if complain is about the hard time from 16 to 40, i can understand the frustration, but imo it can be greatly lifted, udpating gear, using pots, joining guild...

[georgehabadasher]

T1 is super fun, T1 and T2 scenarios are super fun and then there's T2 RvR where you're just worthless canon fodder because of an unreasonable high gear powercreep.

Your opinion suggests that all the players in your faction, in a game involving dozens of players, are all the smaller players vs. the bigger fish in the opposing faction.

Point is there are low level on both side, who became HL after some time. According it is not a solo game, joining a structure is an option, but still an heavy one for some obvious reasons .

Now if complain is about the hard time from 16 to 40, i can understand the frustration, but imo it can be greatly lifted, udpating gear, using pots, joining guild...

There are two issues with your post.

1) Newer players don't know how to mitigate the issues that are causing the frustration, and there are few available resources that are up to date.
2) Experienced players are disincentivized to help newbies because so few of them stick around. This post by Gersy is a great example of that.

Out of all the new guys I encountered in mid tier while leveling alts this year, those who I spend hours tutoring, helping out and trying to retain, I am aware of only a single one who is still playing the game out of over 15+ I had in depth interactions with. Most don't get past the 30's, and those who do often quit shortly after hitting 40. There must be something done to help those players who stop before they even really get a chance to start.

Your suggestion is placing the onus on the players to overcome a design deficiency that the devs have created. The onus is on the devs to fix it, not the players to put band-aids on it.

[Hazmy]

Now if complain is about the hard time from 16 to 40, i can understand the frustration, but imo it can be greatly lifted, udpating gear, using pots, joining guild...

Ultimately while the notion of understanding the systems and joining a guild or making your own premade is a good option to have a better chance, it is still a huge pitfall that the Team is continuously jumping into at the detriment of the server and its community... and after multiple community cryouts to do something about it.

• Solo-queue is PRIORITY and popular in most modern games for a good reason. It has been by far the most popular game mode in League of Legends for example since 2016 and its release. People want to get home and play and have a good time, not recruit groups for 30 minutes and if they fail get stomped by another team. No wonder people leave the server, when RoR Team Members on Discord then reply to their frustration with "Git Gud" or "Make a Premade". If new players feel unwelcome, they will leave, and the server suffers long-term as it has.

• Rename Discordant Scenarios to Solo-queue and give it more highlight along with Weekend Solo Scenario option. Ignoring this issue is effectively self-sabotaging the server’s potential.

• It is provable and several guilds I've personally talked with have said to me WHILE I WAS COMMUNITY MANAGER that they indeed create intentional pug-stomping premades, they are even guild events to level up fast at the detriment of solo players against them. Denying this by anyone at this point is evil.

• There were and are also several cases of known premade groups queuing up in Solo Queue to abuse the system and play together as a group, which have been dropped multiple times as "not enough evidence" case by the Gamemasters.

• Same thing happens in RvR, the moment a new Guild is created on the server and makes warbands, somehow a lot of big names end up on the other side forming Warbands against them and pug warbands. This has ALMOST driven away one of the most valuable additions to the community like Troma and Cross, in recent years, and have definitely driven away new players and guilds. It's also funny that bolstered characters give similar Renown as Level 80 Toons.

The fairly bad new-player experience is not a new story. Scenarios not being the viable side-content as they should be, and RvR being a marathon where new players are asked to suffer for 100 hours with the promise of fun after. None of this is new or a surprise, and these new player threads pop up very frequently with valid and valuable feedback on what should be the Team's priority instead of re-working Dungeons and Career Balance the 3rd time.

And to anyone saying Bolster, Potions etc. - did you successfully fight back the RR 60-80 Players and Warbands on your first week on Return of Reckoning? I can answer that for you - No, so why are we giving this advice to others?

Scenario Matchmaking Rework should be prioritized at this point, along with new player on-boarding, instead of seemingly dismissing all that feedback and likely lose 80% of every new player who ever joins RoR.

[cfsmain]

Recently joined with a friend thanks to a random YouTube video which caught my eye. Never played this game before, but was an avid Lineage 2 player back before it went to hell.

If I can toss in my opinion, we had the most fun during T1. The fights were OK, just borderline bearable if you have no idea. After the 999th character reroll you kind of get the idea and can have fun.

So from my perspective, I finally found a career I enjoy. It's fun, feels good. The next step? Tier 2-4+ RvR. At level 16 (+bolster, sure).

At this point it's:

- FPS drops (my hardware is kind of old, but I can drop to ~40 FPS during the worst of it with even lower spikes)

- Getting completely dumpstered by literally anyone anywhere. Anything I learned, seen or done before is out the window. All the reading and preparation in the world doesn't help. I have mentally braced myself for night after night of sitting in the back of a mass of players moving around like a dumb school of fish, just waiting for XP to come in. If I step out of line I die.
That is of course if I am not kicked out because low level/gear OR some wannabe "legend" is leading the WB and his idea of strategy is bunching behind a wall as if no one can see or just patrolling around doing nothing. Both of these mean I get no XP since patrolling = 0 XP and dumb strategy = I'm dead.

- Dealing with doubt. After days and days of NOTHING (because I just can't do anything to anyone) people start to get ideas, doubts, they get squirrely. So you research some more. Is it me? Is it the class? Is it the game? Is it the server?
The result is 300 threads and posts about how "X" class = dead class and fixed meta. Endless "no, u" situations regarding faction imbalance.

The conclusion? It doesn't matter what I play and do, my influence is meaningless. Even once I gear up, unless I am part of a godly warband with good tactics and coordination I am merely an NPC to entertain others.

I can tell you with full certainty that we have gone from excitement for a game like "the good old days" to dread. I'm stuck at home for a week and instead of progressing my main I would rather roll T1 or fix things around the house or whatever.

My saving grace is that I'm not alone. I have a friend to play with and worst come to worst we can do things together, hang out, duel, try new things or whatever.

I GUARANTEE. That any person stumbling onto this epic game like I did, ends up in here and faces the same thing we all face... as a lonely newbie? As someone who isn't as interested as I am in planning and reading? Someone who just wants to have fun in a game?

THEY ARE OUT OF HERE AS SOON AS THEY HIT 16.

You may cater towards retention, but you also need sales. Please the people who have always been here, but without fresh blood it's never going to be OK.

Hazmy's video has 45k views, let's say 1% of those people at least made a character and tried it. It's a grim rate, but let's assume. Out of 450 people how many do you figure stayed? Looking at the homepage, next to none.

I'm staying and so is my buddy, we're going to see it through as long as we can make it work. But it shouldn't be a chore. Right now it's worse than a chore.

Please forgive my insolence your ancient lordships, I am but a fresh blooded stranger, eager to attend.