[Discussion/Feedback] The Armor Project

[Luth]

Please stop flaming each other because of such a nonsense; i just asked if a core dev has access to the combat calculations, especially crit calculations and maybe he'll find the answer soon™.

[Tesq]

??? Wy start youre kid Flame again... ?
Did you know it 100% that a negativ get crit Chance dont have any Effekt ? No! What we know now is that you Cant negate attackers crit nothing Else and i want to know more about that so i try people to test it with me.. Dont Make every Thing to youre Personal Thing! Here is nothing about you rly nothing. Yea i quote you But that dont means you have to test that

dak we will test this internally in guidl when we have both time cuz i look to this too since im interested in a crit reduction build

[Dabbart]

How the **** is asking you too proof read flaming...

[Daknallbomb]

Please stop flaming each other because of such a nonsense; i just asked if a core dev has access to the combat calculations, especially crit calculations and maybe he'll find the answer soon™.

That would be great! If that dont works i Test it with tesq than and write down what happend

[Luth]

How the **** is asking you too proof read flaming...

It just looked like the topic would escalate for no reason (from different sides) and GMs/mods tend to close topics when this happens; would be nice to come to a conclusion before a lock.

@crit topic
From a core dev:

if i'm not wrong : when being hit, the stat "% of chance to be crit" cannot be negative
said in another way, with for example a base of 15% being hit (items etc.), if you have FS lv3 it will be exactly the same FS lvl4 : 15%

Info is not 100% sure. Maybe it was changed after Aza's confirmation that it can go to negative or it works under certain circumstances; maybe on weekend when i have time and can find a victim, i can test it too.

Nevertheless everyone should spec for full hardy concessions and last stand to be on the safe side.

Spoiler:

[Dabbart]

Thanks Luth, that comment wasn't directed at you btw. But I understand.

I think the confusion is with the stated formula:

((7.5*<attacker effective rank>+50)/<defender initiative>/10)+(<attacker crit bonus> - <defender crit reduction>)

Now, the statdoll is not to be trusted, I get that. But FS directly lowers your "chance to be crit". But according to that formula, and since it can't go into the negatives, it has 0 impact on initiative/lvl chance to be crit. So...

If this is correct, then it's possible that attackers crit rate is affected by reduced chance to be crit. But not your lvl/initiative math. And the Entire stat-doll crit calculation, and way it is displayed is incorrect. And I didn't test 1k attacks for the "real" crit %. I'm still waiting for anyone to confirm that it is possible in any way shape or form to remove someones ability to crit you. So far, we have 1 test that supports that. If we get more, than further testing will be called for to confirm specifics. However, His test was strange for this. He saw:

Tested again, went with 4.9% headroom this time.
5.1% to be crit. 25% reduction vs 15% offensive crit. 6min of just AA and no crits. This is very good news for order players.

So Luth is correct. Crit reduction doesn't cap at 0 and used this formula.

Basecrit + Attackers crit - Crit reduction.

he was not at a high enough Ini to have 0% chance to be crit via lvls, and was relying on his reduction to lower the incoming Crits.... So, Robin, if you could try to recreate this, or if anyone can that would be AWESOME. I would love to be proven wrong on this. It would entirely change the way I build character... Edit: but my last test was at 3.6% to be crit, 33% crit reduction and 1% attacker base chance to crit, and we saw crits... so I dunno wtf.

[roadkillrobin]

Then my guess is that crit reduction/crit increase from gear/tactics works on a seperate calculation then from renown. One wich can be reduced lower then 0 and one that can't. I remember reading that two package of information is being sent in combat, one with static information and one that progressive, something like that. While i don't really understand exactly that means it might explain it.

Spoiler:

And finally lets take a look at how these stats are controlled.
Stats are set with 2 different messages. Base stats are set with F_PLAYER_STATS and stats from gear (and some bonus stats) are set with F_BAG_INFO (Only sent when client loads or player changes gear).

Here is F_PLAYER_STATS packet

struct F_PLAYER_STATS {
byte StatCount; //number of stats to be set in this packet
byte WeaponSpeed; //melee weapon and ranged weapon
byte Unk1;
byte Unk2;
byte BaseArmor;
byte BonusArmor;
byte Bolster;
byte EffectiveLevel;
Statistic Stats[StatCount];
};

struct Statistic{
byte StatisticType;
ushort Value;
};

Bonus stats. These stats are sums of all the stats from gear. They are set with F_BAG_INFO. (This operation is multi purpose, first byte determines what its going to do. To set stats, we set it to 0x19;

struct F_BAG_INFO{
byte Type = 0x19; //we want to set bonus stats.
byte StatCount = 0x62; //we are going to set 98 stats
BonusStat Stats[StatCount];
};

struct BonusStat{
ushort Value; //value in big endian notation
ushort Unk1;
ushort Unk2;
byte Unk3 = 0x80;
byte Unk4 = 0x3F;
};

//Here are stat indices within the stat array.
#define STRENGH 1;
#define WILLPOWER 3;
#define TOUGHNESS 4;
#define WOUNDS 5;
#define INIT 6;
#define WEAPON_SKILL 7;
#define BALLISTIC 8;
#define INT 9;
#define SPIRIT 14;
#define ELEMENTAL 15;
#define CORP 16;
#define PLUS_TO_ALL_DPS 24;
#define BLOCK 28;
#define PARRY 29;
#define DODGE 30;
#define DISRUPT 31;
#define WEAPON_SPEED 38;
#define ALL_CRIT_BONUS 42;
#define MELEE_CRIT 76;
#define RANGE_CRIT 77;
#define MAGIC_CRIT 78;
#define MELEE_POWER 80;
#define RANGE_POWER 81;
#define MAGIC_POWER 82;
#define HEALING_CRIT 89;
#define HEALING_POWER 94;
#define TOUGHNESS_POWER 96;

So if we want to set Healing crit to 25%, and 300 int from mastery/xp level and int from gear/liniments/buffs we would say:

F_PLAYER_STATS baseStats;
baseStats.Stats[INT].Value = 300;
//send packet

F_BAG_INFO info;
info.Stats[HEALING_CRIT].Value = 25;
info.Stats[INT].Value = IntSumFromAllGear;
info.Stats[MAGIC_POWER].Value = MagicPowerFromAllGear;
//send packet;


Examples:
Set with F_PLAYER_STATS (Notice, player is bolstered to level 15, as anyone in T1 entering RVR lakes should be. This also adjusts effective level. In previous section all calculations take level into consideration.)



Setting of INT from gear, magic power, magic crit, healing power and healing crit using F_BAG_INFO

[Darosh]

Skimmed through the thread, my 2cents about the crit thing:

You might want to consider the crit reduction and stacking it passed 0% chance to be crit as means to cancel out debuffs rather than actually impacting critchances of other players in a manner that "negative chance to be crit" would suggest.

If player has x% chance to crit you, and you stack critreduction pass the point of being 0% chance to be crit it (read that as "negative or w/e; y%) won't affect the x% to crit a player has - however it might cancel out debuffs that increase your chance to be crit (+z%).

Lets say you have a "negative" chance to be crit with -3%, you are hit with a debuff increasing your chance to be crit by 5% - you effectively sit at 3% to be crit with the debuff.
While, as Dabbart has worked out, your opponents chance to crit you is unaffected.

As to this theory of "negative" critreduction having any effect: I haven't tested it.
Someone with patience/time might want to see how debuffs and critreduction stacking work out together.

[roadkillrobin]

We allready know that negative vallues affects debuffs that increaee your chance to be crit.

Whats unclear is that we get different test ressaults regarding crit reduction vs critstacking. So it might be just that some vallues are able to be reduced while others arn't. It also night be, like Dabbart sugesting, that The initiative vallue of chance to be crit, might be hardlocked. While crit from gear, and renown and tactics can be reduced by Futile Strikes, tactics and gear reduction.

Considering the ressaults doesn't match with one and other, there's something wierd goin on or testers doing something wrong. I myself have gotten mixed ressaults in tests wich makes my question if I missed something myself.

[freshour]

Can someone come up with a logical way to make WS more effective vs armor stacking without making armor stacking worthless? Personally it would be nice if armor wasn't this GOD stat that adds the most effective defense in a tali slot?

I'd bet that aside from all glass cannons the majority of all players are throwing armor talis in (if they have a clue how good it is) - so anyway to get this thread back on topic and discuss ways to level the playing field for us physical DD's that got our Cov's nerfed nearly completely defeating the purpose of faster AA's